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View Diary: Tax deal still in doubt. So are the parties to the deal. (317 comments)

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  •  Doesn't mean he has to negotiate a bad deal (26+ / 0-)

    The worst part by far is having social security on the table for the fist time in 70 years. And that is was a Dem that put it there is just wrong.

    He got handed a bad situation and actually managed to make it worse in the long run.

    "When you enter the ocean, you enter the food chain, and not necessarily at the top." - Cousteau

    by Thucydides Junior on Wed Dec 08, 2010 at 07:11:19 PM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  Please name three items in the deal that you (0+ / 0-)

      disagree with.

      I support the President.

      by Blogvirgin on Wed Dec 08, 2010 at 07:18:02 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  3 itmes (12+ / 0-)

        Payroll tax break - direct problem for Social security longevity - the worst of the bunch

        Non - permanent extension of middle class tax breaks - keep the hostage with the hostage taker

        Estate tax at 5 million - utter bs

        Now tell me why these are not bad. 3 each please.

        "When you enter the ocean, you enter the food chain, and not necessarily at the top." - Cousteau

        by Thucydides Junior on Wed Dec 08, 2010 at 07:23:15 PM PST

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        •  13 mos for unemployment 2 yrs for rich n/t (5+ / 0-)

          Skepticism of all the elite institutions, not trust, is what required for successful leadership in this era. Digby

          by coral on Wed Dec 08, 2010 at 07:28:11 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  That whole Social Security BS is a Republican (0+ / 0-)

          canard that they have been spouting for the last thirty years. Republican talking point that have been absorbed by so called progressives without a good understanding of Social Security and how it works and is funded.

          There is no estate tax now. Absolutely zero. I kinda like 5 million dollar estates being taxed.

          A two year extension of middle class tax breaks takes you to the next mid terms. If the taxes expire when the Republicans take office in January what do you think they are going to give the middle class? Let me spell it out for you. Z-E-R-O.  

          Now let me give you three reasons why you or someone you know should be for this deal.  56 billion for the extension of unemployment benefits.  What did you want the unemployed and their families to do while the parties fought? Starve to death?  Earned Income Tax credit which will provide an additional benefit to families with children and reduce the marriage penalty to those affected families.

          An extension of the American Opportunity Tax Credit for two years which is a big deal to college students and their families.

          I support the President.

          by Blogvirgin on Wed Dec 08, 2010 at 07:34:33 PM PST

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          •  Don't be ridiculous. The Republicans (10+ / 0-)

            have already pulled this one 5 times and 5 times they have given in when it was time to put their names on the final vote record.

            In other words, the Republicans won't deny unemployment extensions because those people live in their own states too. They know it would make a killer campaign commercial if they put the unemployed millions onto the streets.

            So, stop flogging that one, OK? Because the Republicans have fears too.

            Notice also, that nothing in this "deal" solves the debt ceiling which needs to be raised next year. So, a lot of this won't take place, necessarily, unless the Republicans suddenly feel all warm and fuzzy and decide to give us a freebie next year. Hahahaha, right. . .

            Progress occurs when courageous, skillful leaders seize the opportunity to change things for the better. -- Harry S Truman

            by YucatanMan on Wed Dec 08, 2010 at 07:41:50 PM PST

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            •  Don't worry about the debt ceiling! (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              YucatanMan

              When it comes time to raise the debt ceiling, every friggin' Dem in both houses of Congress should abstain.

              Really.

              Because, of course, GOP policies make the deficit bigger, not smaller.

              The GOP would have to raise the debt ceiling with 100% GOP votes. Let'em explain that to the tea party idiots that elected'em. Let'em have their own civil war. They officially now have enough rope--so let'em hang themselves.

              "The true strength of our nation comes not from the might of our arms or the scale of our wealth, but from the enduring power of our ideals." - Barack Obama

              by HeyMikey on Thu Dec 09, 2010 at 05:25:13 AM PST

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          •  Didn't answer my points (4+ / 0-)

            Social security is on the table and has no need to be. You did not refute that. Point to me.

            The reason there is no estate tax now is not a reason to put something bad in its place. rich folks did fine with a more expensive "lottery tax" on heirs.

            The next two years are not just midterms, they are the presidential election. Also, the same bunch of repubs coming in in January will be there in December of 2012 - so your scenario is just as likley in dec 2012 as Jan 2011. Also, you did not refute the great liklihood they will be held hostage again to rich tax cuts. Point to me.

            As for your points, you do realize you are arguing that we kept what we have, while giving the repubs a great deal more than they had? That this is a defensive loss when we control both chambers and the presidency? You do see the problem here yes?

            Our difference is that you see this as the only option. I think we could have gotten much of this without giving away the farm, by playing more aggressively earlier on. It is very short term gain for very long term loss.

            "When you enter the ocean, you enter the food chain, and not necessarily at the top." - Cousteau

            by Thucydides Junior on Wed Dec 08, 2010 at 08:02:40 PM PST

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          •  You dont even know what youre talking about (0+ / 0-)

            its like you woke up this morning , read the OFA email and decided you were an expert...

            We have actual experts on SS here. People who get paid to do it. Theyve explained to you how ss works and EXACTLY how this is a political move to gut it.

            We HAD an estate tax. People like you helped the gop eliminate it temporarily. A core democratic principle is reinstating it. Yet you Lie openly (or ignorantly) to pretend otherwise.

            A two year cut for the ultrarich results in EXACTLY the same thing happening in 2 years. The gop will simply maneuver Obama (and you) into attacking Democrats for not supporting it. And the american people see Obama once again fighting for wall street and against them.

            Someone this ignorant shouldnt call people ignorant.

            Voters will choose a person who fights a losing battle for his principles over one who fights winning battles against them every time.

            by cdreid on Wed Dec 08, 2010 at 11:31:06 PM PST

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        •  Outta da park! (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          YucatanMan

          ...his...appointments showed that he had no intention of honoring the promises he made... He's a liar and a cheat. -Dallasdoc

          by Words In Action on Wed Dec 08, 2010 at 07:35:28 PM PST

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        •  You forgot the capital gains capitulation (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          cdreid, vacantlook, YucatanMan, aliasalias

          Bill Gates gets to pay only 15% in total taxes on the income that he gets automatically.

          "Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the president to explain to us what the exit strategy is." - George W Bush

          by jfern on Wed Dec 08, 2010 at 07:42:23 PM PST

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      •  OK, follow along: (15+ / 0-)

        1) Puts Social Security on the table, for no reason.
        2) Does nothing at all for the 99 month folks - in the worst position of all - in spite of Obama's crockadile tears about saving the hostages.
        3) Does nothing about the Debt Limit, which the Republicans will use for massive and vicious hostage-taking in 2011.
        4) Absurd cut in Estate Tax - the tax our Founders intended to prevent wealth from passing on from generation to generation - to prevent accumulations of power. http://www.tompaine.com/...
        5) Republicans get everything they want and give up nothing. They have caved 5 times now on unemployment extensions. They would have again. They cannot get tax cuts for the rich without the Democrats going along, either in the lame duck or 2011.

        and many more.

        Progress occurs when courageous, skillful leaders seize the opportunity to change things for the better. -- Harry S Truman

        by YucatanMan on Wed Dec 08, 2010 at 07:35:21 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  And WH paints this as the GOP eating a ton of (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          cdreid, YucatanMan, aliasalias

          sistasteful stuff to get their estate tax and income tax cuts for the wealthy.

          Republicans get everything they want and give up nothing.

          I really don't get how they see the world.

          If that's how they're negotiating with Iran and North Korea and China (ok that is probably what they're doing there), God help us.

          Vagabond Day - Christmas Consumer Strike http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/11/30/924311/-General-Consumer-Strike-Starting-12.19.10

          by Into The Woods on Wed Dec 08, 2010 at 08:26:21 PM PST

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          •  Yes, indeed, God help us. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            cdreid

            Negotiating?

            Well, we just threw in the towel with Israel, our "ally," because the administration didn't want to pressure them over further illegal settlements in Palestinian territory.

            So, yeah.  Seems like they negotiate with the Republicans about the same way they negotiate with foreign countries. . .

            Progress occurs when courageous, skillful leaders seize the opportunity to change things for the better. -- Harry S Truman

            by YucatanMan on Wed Dec 08, 2010 at 09:26:30 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

        •  Got a question (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          cdreid, YucatanMan

          Much has been said about Richie Rich tax cuts for two years, but is there anything that says it wont be done again, in two years after Obama looses to Palin??  Also how long are the middle class cuts for?  Non of this crap makes sense to me.  Why didnt they just scream christmas/unemployment, and let tax cuts expire.  What could repubs do without Dem complicity?

          •  Any Congress can change them at any time (0+ / 0-)

            There are no guarantees and no permanent promises.

            Progress occurs when courageous, skillful leaders seize the opportunity to change things for the better. -- Harry S Truman

            by YucatanMan on Thu Dec 09, 2010 at 12:03:55 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

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