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  •  Shame on you for putting blinders on. (7+ / 0-)

    for not paying attention.  If it wasn't for Wikileaks and the Guardian, and Der Spiegel and two other large newspaper organizations, we probably wouldn't even know what sort of duplicity  our government is up to.

    Yes duplicity. Our government routinely lies to its own citizens. Some politicians, even some Democrats lie to their constituents.

    If it wasn't for the revelations thru the NYTimes redactions and the cooperation of others, we would never know the current US government was interfering with the legal process in Spain to frustrate the bringing up on charges of criminals in the Bush WH team. That is counter to your idea because the Obama team doesn't want to try any former officials whatsoever.  Does Iran Contra strike a bell for you?  Does the Calley trial?
    If there is no day in court here, does that mean there never will be?  Who decides that? War crimes are bigger than any single governments reach, even the USA. Trying them is another matter, a more complex matter.

    That is my term, they would get a day in court which is more than 100's of thousands of Iraqis got-they got an illegal war of choice in our name and we were never ever told the truth to this day.

    Go read Bush's self stroking masturbatory book.
    It might have the truth you are looking for.
    I believe the former Bush officials who recommended a war to please their biggest donors and backers should be exposed and faced with their actions and tried civilly. (Not in a bogus "military commission", That is what dictatorial regimes use).

    Oh wait.

          Wikileaks leaked the English climate scientific memos the RWing loved and misrepresented  in "Climate Gate", they showed the civilian massacre from spraying bullets from a helicopter, and they are the source for many items from other places from all over the world.

    Unless you believe the fantasy that everything you believe that is official from the US government (and allied governments) is automatically true, you would need some confirmation or corroboration.

    Of course that assumes you are rational person as opposed to true believer.

    What happens to Assange is not as important as what happens to the principle that governments are constantly tested, and have to reaffirm their real leanings and loyalties and true worth every day.
    We have the press that (WL is part of the press) we fight to support and we get no more than that. So we have a responsibility, too, and it isn't to be good little primary school obedient pupils but adult students of civics and citizenship in an active way as much as we can.

    cast away illusions, prepare for struggle

    by Pete Rock on Thu Dec 09, 2010 at 10:51:05 AM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  Shame on you for undermining democracy... (0+ / 0-)

      Governments make mistakes and pursue bad policies.  That has been true since the invention of government.  In a western democracy, the recourses to remedy that are built into the system.  That is how lasting change comes.  Not to give funds to empower anonymous, un-elected self-described anarchists.

      Everybody is cheering the denial of service attacks.  Let's see how happy you are when someone who disagrees with you brings down DKOS or another progressive website.  You reap what you sow and believe me the outcome of chaos historically has ALWAYS been to empower the authoritarians in the end.  If you want real democracy, you work in the sunlight and use the rule of law.

      As far as Bush war criminals, you act as if it has been a secret that US Government has taken these legal positions - these are long-standing policy.  Do you want us to give up sovereignty and extradict Obama to some tin-pot America-hating country if they come up with a rationale?   In some places of the world Obama is considered a war criminal.

      Most if not all of the rest of the leaked information does not diverge substantially from what US officials have been saying publicly.  It shows US diplomats, for the most part, advocating honestly for human rights, a better environment, etc.

      People cherry pick the few problematic things.  Let's deal with those.  But let's not tar with a broad brush.  Did we defeat the GOP in 2008 to empower diplomacy over war only to cheer as anarchists gut our diplomatic service?

      Meanwhile, as the hate-America Wikileaks festival goes on, the PRC cracks down on a Nobel Prize-winning dissident:

      I quote in part:

      "The news websites of the BBC, CNN and Norwegian state broadcaster NRK have been blocked on mainland China the day before Chinese dissident Liu Xiaobo is to be awarded the Nobel peace prize.

      Attempts to access the three broadcasters' websites today were unsuccessful, with the message "Internet Explorer cannot display the web page" appearing on the screen according to the news agency AFP.

      The ceremony honouring Liu – who is serving an 11-year sentence for "inciting subversion" – is due to take place in Norway's capital Oslo tomorrow.

      CNN confirmed its site was being blocked in China. China's foreign ministry has made no secret of its fury over the award since it was announced in October.

      The BBC also confirmed that all its online content had been blocked."

      Not a peep on DKOS about this.  The Wikileakers are too busy undermining the Western Democracies.  

      Have fun with your new friends of the Chinese Politburo - weakening the US and its allies brings the day of Chinese Internet style-controls on a global basis that much closer.

      I have no problem choosing my side in this.  You should rethink yours...

      •  I see you respond directly to what I wrote (0+ / 0-)

        Governments make mistakes and pursue bad policies

        are you saying the attempt to suppress the trial in Spain was some principled position, as if there was to be a trial in the USA and the government was arrogating to itself the court cases because they were to be tried here?

        The facts are the Obama government has no intention of having any accountability here and doesn't choose to investigate how a horrific war was launched that took many thousands of US lives and hundred of thousands of Iraqi lives, mainly civilians.  We were taken to war with falsehoods and lies. Knowing lies by our leaders. Blood of innocents is on hands unless we come clean , investigate, criminally charge where appropriate
        and punish where it is the right thing to do.

        Obama doesn't want any part of that.  Why do you think he will be any better on other FP initiatives when he won't come clean on that one?

        Beyond Obama,s that our fate to continue Bush?Republican "bipartisan" policies because we act like sheep and trust half truths and lies as the basis for our judgements?

        PRC has many, many flaws including difficulties with dissenters. They especially have trouble with people attemptong to divide and split up the country like Muslim activists demanding autonomy, the Taiwan question, Laos, and the role of their authoritarian party in national affairs.  They have gone thru several internal upheavals to get to where they are today, some of them very bloody and repressive.

            They are not a model necessarily, they are a negative example at least as much as their innovations.

        Why do some American politicians and corporations like McConnell and Walmart support the unequal trade with them so unreservedly that runs to hundreds of billions of deficit in ouur trade balance and give them a huge investing advantage both in their own country and the chance to grow our debt?

               Wikileaks being suppressed will help us as much as the Chinese governments attempt to manage the news and dissent in their own country.  It won't.

        You seem to think that the anarchist streak in the WikiLeaks episodes is the key part. Actually info
        about their own history shown to citizens in the USA is their most significant contribution.

        cast away illusions, prepare for struggle

        by Pete Rock on Thu Dec 09, 2010 at 06:53:41 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

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