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View Diary: Why the Payroll Tax Cut is No Threat to Social Security (177 comments)

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  •  Ideological rightwing excuse-makers like yourself (23+ / 0-)

    are trying to pretend that turning Soc Sec into a welfare client of the General Fund has no implications. Or that you know for a fact that the revenue decrease from SocSec will absolutely be for one year and one year only.

    You also know that's horseshit.

    You know fucking well that the payroll tax holiday could have come from the Federal Portion of the Payroll Tax, and the entire involvement with Social Security would have been sidestepped AND the same exact financial benefit would accrue to people's paychecks.

    You are a complete rightist ideologue and diary after diary by you is a pushing of rightwing agendas. That's all you ever write about. Who do you think you are fooling with your Rovian innoculation technique of calling your opponents what you yourself are?

    You are a rightwing propagandist, and you always promote the most anti-American people agendas, all the while pretending to be a liberal.

    You are so full of shit.

    Until we break the corporate virtual monopoly on what we hear and see, we keep losing, don't matter what we do.

    by Jim P on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 10:46:19 AM PST

    •  thanks... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Jim P

      just reading this lowered my blood pressure.  

    •  deaniac isn't a rightwinger... (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Jim P, Roger Fox, southof

      he is an advocate for the party's leadership. I always take exception to deaniac's essays because I believe the party needs its left wing whip. I feel strongly about this, but deaniac is a party man, first and foremost.

      You went just a tad overboard there, but that's politics, and why it's avoided as a topic in "polite society."

      Be well there.

      2012: Holding fire . . .

      by papicek on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 11:51:13 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  May not be a rightwinger, but an Ideologue (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Clarknt67

        without question. That he's devious I have no question.

        Maybe it's just a coincidence that he's always promoting the right-most take on economics and health care, but then again, the Administration does that often itself, so it's sort of believable he's just an Ideological (my President whatever the fuck he does!) cheerleader.

        Thanks.

        Until we break the corporate virtual monopoly on what we hear and see, we keep losing, don't matter what we do.

        by Jim P on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 11:55:57 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  this is what I expect from deaniac... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Garrett

          I expect him to advocate what the white house proposes, and I cannot remember being wrong about this, though I may be. In this, I think he's reacting more to the virulence of the anti-Obama rhetoric here than anything else. Well, he's entitled, and I for one, appreciate the work he put into diaries like this as much as anything.

          deaniac and I are on opposite sides of this question, but I think that he's only as right-wing as the president. I feel that his main position is to make it plain that dkos hasn't totally divorced itself from the white house, and in this, I think he's fighting a losing battle, because the white house will continue to do things to alienate more of us going forward.

          I subscribed to deaniac's diaries, because unlike BWD, he argues ideas, and like I say, he puts a lot of work into doing so.

          2012: Holding fire . . .

          by papicek on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 12:11:25 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  If he stuck with facts, didn't vilify or demean (6+ / 0-)

            people with a different take, then there'd be, arguably, some value.

            On the topics themselves, on economics and health care, he constructs a beautiful little Wonkerwald, hoping there's enough trees in there that nobody notices the forest.

            Here the forest is the Village has internalized the rightwings "kill social security", the President repeats the lie that Soc Sec adds to the deficit, there was no need to give the holiday on Social Security when the same could have been done directly from Federal taxes, we have the spectacle of the Catfood Commission with known anti-Social Security people at the head of it....

            This shit, he doesn't want you to think of. It's the "look reasonable and rational" method of propaganda he uses, and uses consistently.

            But still, I wouldn't get so pissed if it wasn't for his Authoritarian Agenda of destroying the character of people who disagree with him. It's childish and dishonest, within the context of his being sophisticated and dishonest.

            Until we break the corporate virtual monopoly on what we hear and see, we keep losing, don't matter what we do.

            by Jim P on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 12:30:06 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  I've been as guilty... (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Jim P

              of flame throwing and over-heated rhetoric as anyone here. That's the nature of politics. In fact, the point of deaniac's diary is to rebut talking points lots of people, like me, have made here.

              For one, I'm proud to be a part of the ideological left. It is where the democratic party gets all of it's philosophy from, and as I've said repeatedly, the center stands for nothing, and can campaign on nothing, and when they try, they make themselves a laughingstock to anyone who knows better.

              I understand your anger perfectly well. Click on any of those links and see. I'm not trying to change your mind, or argue for deaniac's position here, or urge you to try to engage him.

              I'll try to engage him though. Unlike some others, I believe deaniac's worth the effort.

              2012: Holding fire . . .

              by papicek on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 12:52:20 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  let me clarify... (0+ / 0-)

                when I say, "Unlike some others," I'm referring to Obama supporters not Obama critics.

                It should read, "Unlike some other Obama apologists, I believe deaniac is worth the effort."

                The perils of unintentional ambiguities :)

                2012: Holding fire . . .

                by papicek on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 01:00:14 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

              •  understood. i'm sure you (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                KimD, papicek

                are an honest actor, which is all i require from anyone,

                thanks for taking time to tell me your perspective.

                Until we break the corporate virtual monopoly on what we hear and see, we keep losing, don't matter what we do.

                by Jim P on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 01:30:26 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  way I see it... (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Jim P, KimD

                  you're both decent kossacks. None of us need to be in agreement, and it's for damn sure we don't all share the same priorities.

                  Be well out there, and if I don't come across you again before, have some great holidays :)

                  2012: Holding fire . . .

                  by papicek on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 01:32:52 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

      •  I'm sure Deaniac has not read the TRustees report (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        papicek

        or its ignored in the thinking of this diary.

        FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.

        by Roger Fox on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 12:00:56 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  When the man that he so strongly supports (9+ / 0-)

        drifts over to the right-wing, as Obama has done on economic issues, he becomes a right-winger too, by default.

        deaniac isn't a party man because many people in the D party are not on board with this, in fact they are furious about it.  And another argument that he's not a party man is because undermining Social Security pretty much blows up the D party platform.

        •  Remember this phrase ? (11+ / 0-)

          I'm from the Democratic wing of the Democratic party.

          FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.

          by Roger Fox on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 12:03:25 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Sigh. (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Roger Fox, papicek

            A President Wellstone would have been a fabulous gift to all.

            Until we break the corporate virtual monopoly on what we hear and see, we keep losing, don't matter what we do.

            by Jim P on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 12:06:30 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Camp Wellstone Alumni here (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Jim P, papicek

              FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.

              by Roger Fox on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 12:08:34 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  I was out of politics completely (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Roger Fox, papicek

                but happened on C-Span one morning the very first time he was testing the waters in Iowa.

                When he made the case that National Security starts with making sure the children up to three years old get the nutrition, human contact, sensory stimulus which science had proven results in healthier, stronger, well-adjusted, smarter adults, so there's no real National Security unless you start giving all the children a chance for care...

                I emailed him that day to volunteer for any run he might make in my State.

                Damn, I've got tears right this minute thinking of what we've lost.

                Until we break the corporate virtual monopoly on what we hear and see, we keep losing, don't matter what we do.

                by Jim P on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 12:13:36 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

        •  The gratuitous character assassination he (5+ / 0-)

          always has in the beginning -- only ideologues have an objection -- is the tip off.

          He doesn't give a shit about what's real, he only cares that his leader has told him "swing right." Then he constructs his Wonkerwald which seems oh-so-rational and factual, leaving out the most salient of considerations every time.

          Until we break the corporate virtual monopoly on what we hear and see, we keep losing, don't matter what we do.

          by Jim P on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 12:09:32 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  he's a party man in the sense... (0+ / 0-)

          that he supports the party leadership against the opposition. You're right, there are two parties, at least.

          He and I differ in one important way. Some things I will not compromise on, and while this may also be true for deaniac, he hasn't reached that point yet, and I have.

          2012: Holding fire . . .

          by papicek on Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 01:38:01 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

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