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View Diary: Montanans speak out on Sen. Jon Tester's DREAM betrayal (171 comments)

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  •  Why are you so afraid of what the other side (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Treg

    will use in an attack ad?

    If a candidate can't combat the lie that they voted for a bill, then they shouldn't run for office IMHO.

    Voters need to be educated, apparently.

    Up next: Hawaiian vacation. How about you? "Now watch this drive."

    by gooderservice on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 01:58:05 PM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  In case you have not watched the last 8 years (0+ / 0-)

      of political attack ads. The republicans are really good at scaring people. The american public is NOT that smart no matter what people.

      So if people went by this .... "If a candidate can't combat the lie that they voted for a bill, then they shouldn't run for office IMHO." there would be a lot less dems running for office.

      You really dont think there can be an attack ad saying Tester supports amnesty for 30 year old illegal immigrants? Or Tester supports amnesty for those convicted of name the worst crime you can think of that would still allow a person to have good moral character (which as someone who worked for an immigration judge, that is A LOT of things)

      It would be a devastating ad for someone like Tester. Also outside groups are going to dominate places like montana this cycle. TV time is so cheap outside groups will gladly spend money against Tester.

      If there were 59 votes for this and Tester was the one who blocked it I would be with you. But you are upset when there are 4 other dems who did the same thing. One of the dems couldnt be bothered to even be in the CITY! Tester is the wrong guy to be going after.

      •  Sure, I've watched the last 8 plus years (0+ / 0-)

        the republicans defining the issues.  So what?  That means it should stay that way?

        Up next: Hawaiian vacation. How about you? "Now watch this drive."

        by gooderservice on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 02:08:17 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  good job not addressing reaility (0+ / 0-)

          with the citizen united case this stuff is going to get worse in favor of the GOP. If you do not see that then you are blind. And its going to get even worse for Tester if the netroots is going to abandon him for a vote he had already made in 2007 once and there wasnt a peep on this site.

          •  If a democrat can't or won't vote for cloture (0+ / 0-)

            when the democrats sponsored the bill and a majority of democrats are voting for cloture, oh, yeah, believe it, this man will NOT get any more money from me (and I suspect a lot more people like me, too).  Yeah... I contributed.  I thought he was an upstanding person.  I found out he's not.  Live and learn.

            Yeah, yeah, yeah, if I don't see it the way you say it's so, I'm blind.  Yeah, I get that a lot.

            I'm fully aware of Citizens United, Dick Armey, Karl Rove.  I still say that democrats need to define the issues and not let others define it for them.

            If you think democrats are weak and they should cower, so be it.

            Up next: Hawaiian vacation. How about you? "Now watch this drive."

            by gooderservice on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 02:42:05 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Again you fail to understand my point (0+ / 0-)

              As I said in other posts in story... If Tester was the 60th vote I would agree with everyone here for jumping down Testers throat. But you have 4 other dems you did the SAME thing. You have a majority leader who did not public try to say we deserve an up or down vote on this. We did not have a president, a senator or anyone argue vote yes on cloture but no on final passage. NOT ONE.

              So why are you jumping on Tester? Why are you pulling support for him? This is an issue with the party as a whole. To get all upset and jump on Tester for this is stupid

              •  Kos is jumping on Tester (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                jmaier

                because he put a lot of effort in '06 into getting him elected.  Tester was like the page three girl of DKOS for the three months before the election.

                In the sea, Biscayne, there prinks
                The young emerald evening star,
                Good light for drunkards, poets, widows,
                And ladies soon to be married.

                by looty on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 02:53:56 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  he should have jumped on him in 2007 (0+ / 0-)

                  there was a vote on the dream act in 2007 the cloture vote failed 52-44. Tester was a no. Where was the outrage then?

                  Ill tell you where... There wasnt any because they did not have the votes and it was not fair to jump on Tester and Kos knew it. And now... there still werent the votes even if he was a yes. So to me this sudden outrage is BS

                  •  So you're a happy, clappy fan of Tester's, are (0+ / 0-)

                    you?  Tell us about him, why don't you.

                    Up next: Hawaiian vacation. How about you? "Now watch this drive."

                    by gooderservice on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 03:47:20 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  I didnt say I was happy, I just dont see why (0+ / 0-)

                      suddenly people feel the need to jump on him. Where was your outrage in 2007?

                      •  My outrage in 2007 was that Bush (0+ / 0-)

                        was still president.  I've moved on, why haven't you?

                        By the way, I don't feel a need to jump on him -- I feel the need to never, ever support his ass again, and that includes contributing no more money... unless it's to his Democratic primary challenger, if any.

                        Up next: Hawaiian vacation. How about you? "Now watch this drive."

                        by gooderservice on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 04:51:45 PM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  awesome job dodging the question (0+ / 0-)

                          bringing up Bush is quite irrelevant to this conversation...
                          you werent upset with Tester in 2006 because you either did not know about the vote till I just told you... Or you didnt care at the time because his vote wasnt enough to get it over the hump anyway. And shockingly his vote was also not enough to get it over the hump now. So to me once again your outrage as well as Kos's outrage is a bunch of bs.

              •  All the dems who didn't vote for cloture are (0+ / 0-)

                wrong.

                To say that one stole the cookies because three others did it is okay is also wrong.

                So why are you jumping on Tester?

                Because he's a fucking Democrat who voted against cloture for a bill sponsored by Democrats and supported by the majority of Democrats.

                It doesn't get any simpler than that.

                Up next: Hawaiian vacation. How about you? "Now watch this drive."

                by gooderservice on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 03:22:51 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  so if your reasoning is.... (0+ / 0-)

                  Because he's a fucking Democrat who voted against cloture for a bill sponsored by Democrats and supported by the majority of Democrats.

                  Then where is the article on the other 4... Where is the outrage on the other 4? And don't say its because the netroots supported him in 2006, because I cant find the anger after the 2007 vote. You should have been even more outraged then! It was right after the netroots helped get him elected.

                •  Why not have an article jumping on all Dems (0+ / 0-)

                  like Harry Reid for not public asking people like Tester to vote for cloture but still can vote no on passage. Get mad at the President for not making a public plea, get mad at the other 55 who voted yes on cloture but couldnt get Tester to.

                  All I am saying is directing all this anger at one guy when there is a lot of anger to go out is pretty stupid

                  •  Obama is the leader of the Democratic Party. (0+ / 0-)

                    And oh, yeah, I had plenty to say about him.

                    I have no control over anti-Latinos, I can't make them do what I what, but I sure as hell don't have to support them.

                    By the way, why aren't you supporting this bill and going against EVERY SINGLE DEMOCRAT WHO VOTED AGAINST CLOTURE?  I wonder.

                    Up next: Hawaiian vacation. How about you? "Now watch this drive."

                    by gooderservice on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 04:53:59 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Who says I am supporting anyone? (0+ / 0-)

                      You are just making up statements now. Am I annoyed with Tester? Yes. Should he have voted for cloture along with the rest of them? Yes. But is this outrage directed at one senator pointless and stupid? Yes.

                      Sometimes I think the people of Kos are like Jim Demint, they would rather have 33 Dem senators who vote 100% with the party than have the majorities we have had since 2006.

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