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View Diary: Open thread for night owls: More than rhetorical violence (273 comments)

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  •  As John Cole has said... (15+ / 0-)

    ...There are crazies out there. And this violent vituperative rhetoric eggs them on.

    Don't tell me what you believe. Tell me what you do and I'll tell you what you believe.

    by Meteor Blades on Sun Jan 09, 2011 at 09:38:21 PM PST

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    •  Was it you MB... (6+ / 0-)

      That lived in Colorado and dealt with a White Supremacist attack on a Jewish Radio guy first hand?

      For some reason I remember that being you. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

      "An exact science is one that admits loss" -- Genesis P-Orridge

      by jethrock on Sun Jan 09, 2011 at 09:45:04 PM PST

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      •  I dealt with the aftermath. I had lived... (17+ / 0-)

        ...in the house several years before Alan Berg was machine-gunned in 1984 by The Order in the driveway of that house when he came home from his radio gig. I covered the investigation and received death threats from members of The Order. But the Denver cops, perhaps because they didn't like my coverage of their lousy investigation, wouldn't do anything about it even though I could identify one of the threat-givers. It wasn't as if there wasn't a reason to think the threateners weren't serious. Berg took 11 bullets, after all.

        Don't tell me what you believe. Tell me what you do and I'll tell you what you believe.

        by Meteor Blades on Sun Jan 09, 2011 at 09:50:34 PM PST

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        •  Jesus Christ~! n/t~! (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          JeffW, jethrock, Onomastic

          "It's hell to pay when the fiddler stops." ~Leonard Cohen

          by Annalize5 on Sun Jan 09, 2011 at 09:54:52 PM PST

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        •  Thanks... (5+ / 0-)

          I thought that was you.

          That was one of the first conversations I got involved with Daily Kos on. Not a dairy... but in the comments of some diary during the 2008 primaries where I think you had mentioned it.

          "An exact science is one that admits loss" -- Genesis P-Orridge

          by jethrock on Sun Jan 09, 2011 at 09:58:01 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  What is meant by "The Order"?/nt (0+ / 0-)

          Empowering Young Inmates to Write New Chapters in Their Lives. Free Minds.

          by mimi on Mon Jan 10, 2011 at 05:50:23 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Here's the... (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            mimi, lotlizard

            ...Wikipedia version:

            The Order was founded by Robert Jay Mathews in late September 1983 at Mathews' farm near Metaline Falls, Washington.[1] Matthews was baptized by the Mormon faith as a high schooler. He formed the "Sons of Liberty", an anti-communist militia mostly made up of Mormon survivalists. A fundamental goal of The Order was revolution against the American government, which its members, and those of other white supremacist groups, believed to be controlled by a cabal of prominent Jews. The Order was named after, and partly modeled on, a fictional group in William Luther Pierce's novel The Turner Diaries.[2] The Order's goals included the establishment of a homeland (now the Northwest Territorial Imperative) from which Jews and non-whites would be barred. They often referred to the United States federal government as ZOG, an acronym for Zionist Occupied Government. Members of the Order included Randy Evans, Gary Yarborough, Bruce Pierce, Denver Parmenter, Frank Silva, Richard Scutari, David Lane, Randy Duey, and David Tate.

            To fund their goals, the Order committed a series of violent crimes. First the robbery of a sex shop, which netted them less than USD $400. Afterwards, the Order's attacks were more effective, committing several lucrative bank robberies, as well as bombing a theater and a synagogue. The Order ran a large[3] counterfeiting operation, and executed a series[citation needed] of armored car robberies, including one near Ukiah, California that netted $3.8 million.[4]

            The Order drew up a hit list of enemies, and on June 18, 1984 radio talk show host Alan Berg was murdered in front of his home by Bruce Pierce, assisted by other members of The Order.[5] Berg was number two on The Order's list.[6] Berg's murder and the subsequent trial formed the basis of Steven Dietz's 1988 play God's Country, and also loosely inspired Eric Bogosian's play Talk Radio (later adapted into a film by Oliver Stone) and the film Betrayed. A fictional version of the story was also the subject of the movie Brotherhood of Murder.

            In December 1984, authorities were able to track Mathews down to a house on Whidbey Island where he refused to surrender.[2] During a shootout, the house was ignited by incendiary flares, became engulfed in flames and Mathews was killed.[2] Mathews is held in high esteem by some within the white nationalist subculture.[7][8]

            Don't tell me what you believe. Tell me what you do and I'll tell you what you believe.

            by Meteor Blades on Mon Jan 10, 2011 at 09:19:55 AM PST

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            •  I am ashamed to have asked (0+ / 0-)

              I am reading so much stuff right now that I "forgot" I should have done the research myself. Thank you, MB, you are very patient and generous.

              Empowering Young Inmates to Write New Chapters in Their Lives. Free Minds.

              by mimi on Mon Jan 10, 2011 at 10:54:19 AM PST

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              •  No problem. Wikipedia isn't the last... (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                mimi

                ...word on this by a long shot, but it gives you the basics.

                Don't tell me what you believe. Tell me what you do and I'll tell you what you believe.

                by Meteor Blades on Mon Jan 10, 2011 at 10:57:03 AM PST

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                •  I was already in the United States when that (0+ / 0-)

                  happened and I am amazed (not completely) that I haven't any recollection of it happening or having heard about it. Could also be that I just have not understood it. Thank you again. I will try to read up on it. The SPLC must have material about it, I imagine.

                  Empowering Young Inmates to Write New Chapters in Their Lives. Free Minds.

                  by mimi on Mon Jan 10, 2011 at 11:02:55 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

    •  right (0+ / 0-)

      If Adolf Hitler incites Karl Marx to violence, it is still Hitler doing the inciting and Marx doing the violence.

      All I've got is an orange blog, three paragraphs, and the truth.

      by Attorney at Arms on Sun Jan 09, 2011 at 09:45:44 PM PST

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