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View Diary: Krugman: Is Tucson "A Turning Point" or "Just The Beginning?" (243 comments)

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  •  It is the guns stupid (7+ / 0-)

    I couldn't care less what motive this guy had.

    A hundred thousand people get shot each year because of a whole range of random motives and the same with the mass shootings.

    •  who you calling stupid? (0+ / 0-)

      Way to take part in a debate. Bye-bye now.

    •  Yeah (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Meteor Blades

      Let's disarm everyone but the underfunded police and the criminals. That'll fix it.

    •  You are wrong. (8+ / 0-)

      If there were no guns (and really, you can't possibly eliminate them anyway in our lifetime) they would use other weapons. I prefer not to offer suggestions on a public forum but if I were a violent person I could think of dozens of ways to have killed those people.

      If you focus on the gun issue you will expend all your energy on a losing battle, harden the battle lines, prove the guns and god crowd right (that Obama wants to take away their guns) and accomplish nothing.

      The problem is the rhetoric which inspires hate. The public, tacit approval of that hate speech...like Beck having ANY sponsors. We need to focus on getting his show yanked and get Palin off Discover. Teach them that part of the consequences of hate speech is that they lose money. It's the only message that will resonate.

      President Obama is the best moderate Republican president in my lifetime. kasandra.us

      by KS Rose on Sun Jan 09, 2011 at 11:06:38 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  bet! name one other way that jerkoff could have (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Joe Bob, msdrown

        killed & maimed 20 people in a manner seconds. what horse shit! i am so sick of this insipid meme, "knives kill people too, so do baseball bats, you can even kill a person with a pillow." what patent nonsense! handguns are made with a specific purpose - to kill people!

        Whatever action a great man performs, common men follow. And whatever standards he sets by exemplary acts, all the world pursues. The Gita 3.21

        by rasbobbo on Sun Jan 09, 2011 at 11:16:09 PM PST

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        •  A sharp, thin, samarai sword. (0+ / 0-)

          Too crazy?  A simple explosive using black powder and nails. A big explosive using a homemade version of Semtex.  Guns make it very easy to do, but eliminating guns won't solve the problem.  Reasonable gun laws would help some but we have a culture that celebrates violence and surrounds people with delusions of a government out to get them.  The culture needs to change, and that includes the resistance to simple gun laws.

          •  Wrong on the sword, btw (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            pgm 01
            1. Ever seen one?  There's no way to unobtrusively carry a katana.
            1. Ever swung one?  Takes more space to do so than for a baseball bat.  
            1. Largest number of people alleged to have been laid low at one time in a katana attack was seven, and that was in the 12th century in circumstances that appear legendary, to say the least.  Beheading or cleaving a person is much harder than it looks in the movies.  

            Disclosure:  I know this only because I'm an ex-wargamer and SCA person.  I don't even carve the roasts in my house.  

            "A city for sale and doomed to speedy destruction if it finds a purchaser!" --King Jugurtha

            by LucyandByron on Mon Jan 10, 2011 at 01:05:54 PM PST

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        •  Well (0+ / 0-)

          A bomb can kill and maim 20 people in a manner of seconds.  I assume the demostic terrorists would use bombs if it wasn't so easy to get a gun.  Btw, what kind of gun did the assasin use?  Was it like a military grade automatic weapon?

          They tortured people to get false confessions to justify invading Iraq.

          by yet another liberal on Sun Jan 09, 2011 at 11:36:36 PM PST

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          •  Nope. Just a handgun. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            yet another liberal
          •  Glock 9mm with expanded capacity magazine. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            aliasalias

            These are semi automatic but as anyone who has used one knows, after the first round, repeatedly pulling the trigger allows rapid fire.

            Normal round capacity is 15 or 16 shells with a loader.  This guy seems to have had many more in one clip.

            Last night I suggested steps we could take right now to begin gun control.  Registration of the person and guns; chipping the guns; no automatics; no amour piercing ammunition (police are struggling in the arms race); as much coursework as licensing for a car license; re schooling and testing on a regular basis for gun owners; using a non registered gun, destroy the weapon and jail time for the user; if used in a crime, throw the book at them, destroy the weapon; history database on each gun; destroy all old, non fired or maintenanced guns via amnesty; limit guns per person...

            It's start.  We can't have both: there are too many, do nothing and total gun control today.  We have to start.

            I own and shoot. But I cannot understand why my car and previous boats are tracked, licensed, registered kept in data bases but not guns.  I cannot understand why I as a driver and boat handler have to have extensive practice, coursework and personal examinations but not as a gun owner.  Long past time for change.

            My suggestions landed with a resounding thud.

            "Never, desist till we ... extinguish this bloody traffic, of which our posterity, will scarce believe that it suffered a disgrace and dishonor to this country.

            by Regina in a Sears Kit House on Mon Jan 10, 2011 at 11:08:15 AM PST

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        •  Did you not believe me when I said (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Spider Jerusalem

          I wouldn't post ideas on how to harm humans on a public forum? LOL Just because you suffer from a lack of imagination is not my problem. I'm not going to tell you how to attack a group of people.

          Here's something you might think about though.. there were more murders per-capita in the 1300-1600's than there are now. Mid 1600's the smooth bore rifle was invented. This is the first gun that wasn't likely to blow up in your face. Then the flint-lock and other armor-piercing guns became popular circa 1690. By  Early 1700's the murder rate started dropping. Now, I'm not prepared to claim that guns dropped the murder rate. But I am going to argue that reliable, commonly available guns didn't increase the murder rate.

          President Obama is the best moderate Republican president in my lifetime. kasandra.us

          by KS Rose on Mon Jan 10, 2011 at 12:21:08 AM PST

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          •  The shooter had an extended magazine (4+ / 0-)

            You can buy 33 round glock magazines over the internet. They are the ones that stick out from the bottom of the gun because they're extra long.

            Something like this, but you can buy them lots of places apparently: http://www.topglock.com/...

            The NRA types don't want them banned because you know you might be attacked in your home by some cartel hit squad like in Scarface, so you need to take multiple 33 shot magazines with you wherever you go.

            When we stop putting leaders from the past up on pedestals and ignoring their flaws, we can start seeing our present leaders for what they really are.

            by PhillyJeff on Mon Jan 10, 2011 at 05:45:51 AM PST

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            •  Really, that hasn't got anything to do with (0+ / 0-)

              anything. He could have had four guns. He could have used other means to attack those people. I hope there's never an event happen where I can point backwards and say, that's one of the things I was thinking of.

              President Obama is the best moderate Republican president in my lifetime. kasandra.us

              by KS Rose on Mon Jan 10, 2011 at 09:35:54 AM PST

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          •  KS, you don't think any of that had anything (0+ / 0-)

            to do with changing social norms, more effective police, and general social progress?

            Sure you can murder people without guns. It's much, much easier to kill a large number of people (just to take one scenario) with a gun than with a knife or some other weapon.

            When we stop putting leaders from the past up on pedestals and ignoring their flaws, we can start seeing our present leaders for what they really are.

            by PhillyJeff on Mon Jan 10, 2011 at 05:47:54 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  I am not ascribing the changes to guns (0+ / 0-)

              I'm saying guns didn't make the difference in the changes.

              You're mistaken about guns making it easier to kill than other weapons. I guess that's good that you don't think of these things. Being military trained, and a chemist and lots of other things there are lots of very easy ways to kill many people that would become popular if guns just disappeared.

              President Obama is the best moderate Republican president in my lifetime. kasandra.us

              by KS Rose on Mon Jan 10, 2011 at 09:33:03 AM PST

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          •  Alfred Hitchkock had the famous use the (0+ / 0-)

            frozen leg of lamb then roast it and feed it to the cops episode.  How far do we want to go on this? Anything can be a weapon.

            "Never, desist till we ... extinguish this bloody traffic, of which our posterity, will scarce believe that it suffered a disgrace and dishonor to this country.

            by Regina in a Sears Kit House on Mon Jan 10, 2011 at 11:10:55 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

        •  A bomb? (0+ / 0-)

          The biggest mass killings by deranged individuals in the United States and elsewhere were done with home-brew explosives, not guns.

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