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View Diary: Attempted assassination of Giffords and gun control (286 comments)

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  •  Aren't there some some competitive shooting (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    cevad, Tonedevil, ResistSocialism

    events where an extended magazine is of practical benefit? Or maybe some personal target exercise that might justify an extended magazine to suit the shooter's personal preferences?

    My 1911 magazines only hold 7.  Your mags hold 15? Twice as much as mine?  Yes.

    But I would never presume to say because your 9mm holds twice as many rounds as my .45 that your capacity is 'insane.'

    Just sayin...

    •  Ahh, well (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Tonedevil, Matt Z

      I don't do any competitive shooting right now, so I can't really speak to that.

      I suppose it is possible.

      You'd need an expert at that to answer, and that is not me.

    •  I would. Listen: "Insane!" (5+ / 0-)

      Why wouldn't you?

    •  Those competitions would change their rules (9+ / 0-)

      and cope.

      In any event, it's a level playing field.

      We do not forgive our candidates their humanity, therefore we compel them to appear inhuman

      by twigg on Mon Jan 10, 2011 at 07:59:07 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  You could also have very strict permits (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Tonedevil, twigg, Matt Z, Uberbah

        specifically for these competitions, where the people carrying out the competition can have x number of said extended magazines that can never leave the property.

        That is what the British do with high-power sporting rifles, they are REALLY locked up at the place where you would use them, then you have to return them at the end of your hunting, etc.

        •  The British went further (8+ / 0-)

          They banned hand guns and told the sports shooters to find something else to do.

          In the UK, everytime there is a gun incident (which are mercifully rare), politicians of all shades simply tighten the rules even further.

          We do not forgive our candidates their humanity, therefore we compel them to appear inhuman

          by twigg on Mon Jan 10, 2011 at 08:20:20 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  What a concept - (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Tonedevil, twigg, Matt Z

            maybe the US should try it sometime!

            "Pray for the dead, and fight like hell for the living." ~ Mother Jones

            by jan4insight on Mon Jan 10, 2011 at 08:26:54 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Start with the US Military (0+ / 0-)

              Before trying to completely deny innocent people their sacrosanct rights to self-defense, why not disarm the US military?  Do you not think that US soldiers have killed innocents in Iraq and Afghanistan (say, 9-year-old girls)?  Or do you wish that the military always be available for the satanists who run our government to use against a citizen revolution?

              I ain't no neocon; rather, I'm an anarchocapitalist libertarian.

              by ResistSocialism on Mon Jan 10, 2011 at 11:30:00 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

        •  The brits have (0+ / 0-)

          the most classist system in the western hemisphere as well. Where they do things like put cameras on every street. Force dna testing on entire populations (you can bet that doesnt happen in the upperclass neighborhoods). Where you're pretty much guilty if you're charged of a crime.. where their crown prince does things like wear Swastikas on his clothes.

          Pardon me but we fought this war back in the day not to be brit...

          Voters will choose a person who fights a losing battle for his principles over one who fights winning battles against them every time.

          by cdreid on Tue Jan 11, 2011 at 02:22:10 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  This must be troll bait (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            semiot
            1. DNA testing is not forced. Regarding the recent murder investigation, the police asked people in the area to voluntarily submit samples in. While the efficacy of this is not established, there have been instances where this has led to breakthroughs in investigations. Abuse of collected DNA sample is the main concern with this.
            1. The American legal system is based on British common law. In England and Wales, people are innocent until proven guilty and where serious matters have to be proven beyond reasonable doubt, and where less serious matters need to be proved on the balance of probabilities. I don't see any difference there.
            1. It was at a costume party, admittedly in poor taste. Funnily enough, the royal family is probably more popular in the US than in the UK. Worth to mention that the Monarch has no political influence whatsoever and serves only as the personification of the Crown, which is an important part of the UK constitution. What it does is to reflects on the political history of the UK and all of its realms which succeeded and replicated its system of the constitutional monarchy.
            •  Oh bullshit (0+ / 0-)

              Golly.. you think collecting the DNA of entire neighborhoods.. in "selected areas only" of course led to breakthroughs in crime? Im shocked. Tends to work out that way in any tyrannical society. Nice squirming...

              No its not. You should probably read some history. American or Brit to start. Britain and the rest of the western world in fact have adopted many of americas legal concepts. Most of which btw are based on the beliefs put forth by uppity FRENCH peasants not authoritarian brits still worshipping a multicentury dynasty of mass murderers as "holy".

              Quibble all you want. There was nothing "funny" or "just a bit of poor taste" about it, considering his disgusting family history. If youre Brit you might want to read up on your history  a bit. An entitled little bastard wearing a swastika when millions of still living brits faced gas, bombs, and bullets to protect his legacy?

              Voters will choose a person who fights a losing battle for his principles over one who fights winning battles against them every time.

              by cdreid on Tue Jan 11, 2011 at 03:12:56 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

      •  Killjoy. n/t (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Tonedevil, phrogge prince

        Republicans are terrorists.

        by Bush Bites on Mon Jan 10, 2011 at 08:19:39 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Better than killing innocents. (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Tonedevil, Bush Bites, Matt Z, jan4insight

          We do not forgive our candidates their humanity, therefore we compel them to appear inhuman

          by twigg on Mon Jan 10, 2011 at 08:20:47 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  No worries. (6+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            rabel, semiot, Tonedevil, twigg, Matt Z, jan4insight

            It was snark.

            You can't change the law because they use 30-round magazines in a competition? Because you'll ruin a fuckin' game?

            Man....

            Republicans are terrorists.

            by Bush Bites on Mon Jan 10, 2011 at 08:26:10 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  Obviously (0+ / 0-)

            Gun control is highly effective; just ask Adolf Hitler how he found [disarmed; the Jews of the Warsaw Ghetto were quite different] Jews.  Y'all are playing with fire by advocating British-style total disarmament; an attempted seizure of arms would spark another revolution, and, though I disagree with most of the posters here [obviously], I hardly wish that violence occur.  Incidentally, don't delude yourselves into thinking that such a contest would be immediately resolved in the US's favor; while I'm not disposed to write a treatise upon guerrilla tactics, a quick comparison of BluFor and RedFor casualties in Vietnam, along with the general competence in marksmanship exhibited by those of my persuasion (which compares quite favorably to that of the average US soldier, let me assure you), suffices to demonstrate that any conflict would entail DEPLORABLE loss of life.  Ain't y'all generally desirous of peace, not the aggressive wars of Bush (41 and 43) fame?

            I ain't no neocon; rather, I'm an anarchocapitalist libertarian.

            by ResistSocialism on Mon Jan 10, 2011 at 11:35:05 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Gun control is why (0+ / 0-)

              per capita murder rates in Western Europe are ten times what they are in the US.

              On a not sarcastic note (the following oversimplifies and omits details): After the Great War, in 1919 and 1920, there were very strong gun control laws in Germany. Essentiall, these were imposed as part of the end of the war, and effectively prevented ordinary Germans from owning firearms. In 1928 the Weimar government relaxed those controls, although it maintained strict licensing requirements for owning and carrying a gun. In 1938, when Nazi repression of the Jews was already highly developed both legally and in practice, the Nazis passed a law, which basically further liberalized gun ownership, except for Jews, for whom it prohibited gun ownership.

              A brief summary is that: the relaxing of gun controls coincided with the rise of nazi brutality in the street.

              •  Do you actually believe (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                ResistSocialism

                that drivel?

                We do not forgive our candidates their humanity, therefore we compel them to appear inhuman

                by twigg on Tue Jan 11, 2011 at 04:55:40 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  what's the drivel? (0+ / 0-)

                  Murder rates in Western Europe are much lower than in the US. The main reason is because guns are less easily available.

                  The nazis were as motivated by revenging Versailles as by anything, and their rise went hand in hand with a systematic liberalization of the context for violence, that is with legal facilitation of possession of the means to do violence.

                  It's not that the Jews were disarmed so much as that those who wished to kill them were armed. The distinction is more than merely semantic.

                  It is a problem in the US that those inclined to violence so easily obtain the means to effect it.

              •  Technically, Germans were Allowed by Hitler (0+ / 0-)

                only hunting / 'sporting' rifles and handguns (sound familiar?), though, besides submachineguns, there were few affordable but prohibited weapons on the market (mainly light machineguns).  The main problem in Germany was the fact that the populace was generally disposed to support Hitler, though not necessarily out of hatred for the Jews (though the relative complicity of German civilians in the Holocaust merits its own thread and is a subject upon which I am not well-informed).  Note also that Nazi brutality in the streets was technically common long before 1938.  Far more importantly, we see that a targeted group (Jews:productive Americans?) is disarmed forcibly by the State, whilst a somewhat-hostile [and largely conscripted] populace is not, whether due to liberalized gun ownership laws or the fact that so many German men were in the military at this point.  Is it unreasonable for those of my persuasion to fear that disarmament would be only for us, especially because the military and overreaching federal law enforcement departments are not being concurrently disarmed (or even better regulated)?

                I ain't no neocon; rather, I'm an anarchocapitalist libertarian.

                by ResistSocialism on Tue Jan 11, 2011 at 12:13:46 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

    •  IDPA and ISPC do not use extended magazines n/t (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      rabel, Tonedevil, phrogge prince, Boris49

      Präsidentenelf-maßschach;Warning-Some Snark Above;Cascadia Lives

      by annieli on Mon Jan 10, 2011 at 08:20:07 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  An extended magazine is virtually a requirement (0+ / 0-)

      for those with really tiny dicks.

      "When I was an alien, cultures weren't opinions" ~ Kurt Cobain, Territorial Pissings

      by Subterranean on Tue Jan 11, 2011 at 02:21:36 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Can't incovenience target shooters! (0+ / 0-)

      OMG, can't have people taking up precious time at the target range. Human lives aren't worth such a price.

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