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View Diary: Jon Stewart's take on the Tucson shooting (257 comments)

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  •  re: Music (0+ / 0-)

    I've seen this comparison between lyrics and political speech/rhetoric twice now in the last 24 hours, once from JS and also from Lawrence O'Donnell. Both are making incoherent points. Conflating esoteric fictional lyrical content with political speech in the mainstream that directly links to the specific events going on in our political and social life is absurd. That neither men saw this is disappointing and to some degree confusing to me. This is a discussion which would need more time and space, but to compare a supposed and regarded leader a la Palin with a rock lyricist who is using his art to express beliefs is simple myopia.

    I don't care what the definition of "is" is. I care what the definition of "torture" is.

    by MetalCelt on Tue Jan 11, 2011 at 12:00:49 PM PST

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    •  So lyrics that say (0+ / 0-)

      "let the bodies hit the floor" openingly advocating murder would never in a millon years cause a crazy person to snap.  But Sarah Palin's target map is a ticking time bomb?  

      "Mitt Romney is a plastic man who has no brain." - Tom Woods

      by methinshaw on Tue Jan 11, 2011 at 12:04:19 PM PST

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      •  Yes (0+ / 0-)

        Again, are we to compare those who are regarded as leaders of people with artists? If so, we're going to be going down a very long, winding road of contorted causality. We make distinctions between people and their place in society and therefore their responsibilities all the time. If Bono said we need to return to the Gold Standard and Paul Krugman said the same thing, who do you think would be given the most intellectual weight? Claiming such distinctions are merely semantic would be nonsense.

        I don't care what the definition of "is" is. I care what the definition of "torture" is.

        by MetalCelt on Tue Jan 11, 2011 at 01:19:42 PM PST

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        •  I hate that this is true (0+ / 0-)

          but Bono would probably get more people interested in the gold standard than Krugman ever would.  The entertainment media is far more influential than the political media to the majority of Americans.

          It doesn't matter if someone calls themselves an artist.  A famous musicians or actors work is going to be far more influential because more people are aware of it versus anything a guy on talk radio says.  This is even more true for young people who rarely watch or listen to political news.

          If someone is crazy they aren't going to think, well Drowning Pool wasn't really talking literally about killing people.  A major characteristic of schizophrenia is being unable to distinguish reality from fantasy.  

          So if you want to blame to say the media is to blame for these murders, what was the kid most likely to have been influened by, the heavy metal music he was listening to or the fact that Sarah Palin put a target on his Congress woman?

          "Mitt Romney is a plastic man who has no brain." - Tom Woods

          by methinshaw on Tue Jan 11, 2011 at 02:30:09 PM PST

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          •  Hmmm (0+ / 0-)

            Let's make one thing abundantly clear, absolutely no one on the left is saying we need to ban words, speech or such. All that is being said is this: is it too much to ask that people with real power, people who have positions that can yield change, admit such inflammatory statements and themes are wreckless and counter-productive within the democratic structure we live in? And that furthermore, toning down such statements would be productive and appeals to common sense?

            If violent lyrics truly inspired people, trust me there would be far more acts, and that is not the case. Of course, in the unfortunate myriad of mass shootings in the recent past, the amount of those people who listen to music with violent lyrics is minuscule. Why don't we indict the music non-metal/rock people listen to who kill? It's WAY more than those who do listen to such.  

            I don't care what the definition of "is" is. I care what the definition of "torture" is.

            by MetalCelt on Tue Jan 11, 2011 at 02:51:27 PM PST

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            •  I agree that famous people (0+ / 0-)

              political or otherwise, need to consider their words.

              What you said about violent lyrics, can also be said of talk radio or Fox News.  When perfectly sane people start rebelling against the elected government because of what for example, Rush Limbaugh said, I'll be concerned.  So far, all I've seen are a few nutbags that could have been set off by anything.  Although Limbaugh's audience is relatively small, he's been around awhile long enough that if his rhetoric was really that toxic, I think we'd have a more definate correlation by this point.  

              "Mitt Romney is a plastic man who has no brain." - Tom Woods

              by methinshaw on Tue Jan 11, 2011 at 03:41:41 PM PST

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