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View Diary: Attention Massachusetts kogs--Bob Massie for Senate (42 comments)

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  •  "holier than thou" is your value judgment (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    revsue, camlbacker, Chacounne

    not his, or mine, or that of any of the other progressive Christians I know.

    read the words that follow "toe to toe on moral issues"...

    "Politics is like driving. To go backward put it in R. To go forward put it in D."
    "You can't spell crazy without R-AZ" h/t rb608

    by TrueBlueMajority on Sun Jan 16, 2011 at 08:01:29 PM PST

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    •  I did read the words (0+ / 0-)

      Why is he going toe to toe on moral issues at all?  This guy seems to have no sense of separation of church and state, which means, sayonara, this is the Democratic Party and we'll be happy to elect someone who isn't going to bring his moral highness into the federal government.

      •  wrong wrong wrong (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        revsue, camlbacker, Chacounne

        you have made some assumptions about "moral highness" that are untrue.

        health care for all is a moral issue.

        budgets that spend more on senseless war than feeding hungry children is a moral issue.

        giving a tax cut to the wealthiest 2% instead of extending unemployment benefits for the 99ers is a moral issue.

        THOSE kind of moral issues.

        morality in seeking the common good and the best outcome for the neediest people.

        moral issues that have nothing to do with the separation of church and state.

        you've got a chip on your shoulder about people of faith.  fine.  but we have been part of every positive social justice movement in this country too.

        "Politics is like driving. To go backward put it in R. To go forward put it in D."
        "You can't spell crazy without R-AZ" h/t rb608

        by TrueBlueMajority on Sun Jan 16, 2011 at 08:10:46 PM PST

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        •  i don't have a chip on my shoulder at all (0+ / 0-)

          this guy, as you specifically wrote in your diary, thinks he gets the moral high ground because he's an episcopal priest.  You actually specifically wrote that.  Thus, goodbye Mr. Massie, you're not better than everyone else cuz you're a priest, sorry bud.

        •  Torture is a moral issue. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          TrueBlueMajority, camlbacker

              Standing for justice and accountability,
                       For Dan,
                       Hugs,
                       Heather

          Torture is ALWAYS wrong, no matter who is doing it to whom.

          by Chacounne on Sun Jan 16, 2011 at 08:29:17 PM PST

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          •  amen (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Chacounne

            "Politics is like driving. To go backward put it in R. To go forward put it in D."
            "You can't spell crazy without R-AZ" h/t rb608

            by TrueBlueMajority on Sun Jan 16, 2011 at 08:37:07 PM PST

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          •  so he's better than the rest of us (0+ / 0-)

            at disavowing torture because he's an episcopal priest?  what a joke.

            •  I didn't say that at all (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              TrueBlueMajority, camlbacker

              and neither did TBM.

              Many voters want to talk about issues from a moral stand point. I think what TBM was saying, and I agree with her, is that when those voters who wish to discuss issues from a moral stand point want to do so he has a context to discuss them from. (TBM, I hope I haven't misstated your intent; if I have I apologize.)

                      To be clear,
                       Heather

              Torture is ALWAYS wrong, no matter who is doing it to whom.

              by Chacounne on Sun Jan 16, 2011 at 09:09:38 PM PST

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              •  straight out of the diary (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                TrueBlueMajority, CuriousBoston

                is an Episcopal priest who can go toe to toe with anyone about moral issues without being rigid or bombastic

                Anyone who reads this with sincerity can see that the diarist equated Massie's being an Episcopal priest with Massie's ability to go toe to toe on moral issues.  This is ridiculous and directly implies that Massie is better able to go toe to toe on moral issues because he's an Episcopal priest.

                Separation of church and state.  Let's please find a Senate candidate who doesn't think he needs to be a priest to go "toe to toe on moral issues."

                •  In that point, TBM is giving his background, (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  TrueBlueMajority, camlbacker

                  that he is an Episcopal priest, and then is talking about his, for lack of a better word, abilities and demeanor.

                            To be clear,
                             Heather

                  Torture is ALWAYS wrong, no matter who is doing it to whom.

                  by Chacounne on Sun Jan 16, 2011 at 09:28:36 PM PST

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                  •  come on (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    TrueBlueMajority

                    If this is what TBM was doing, she would've written:

                    Here is his background: ....

                    Instead, she only informed us that he's a priest in the context of telling us he has superiority when it comes to going "toe to toe on moral issues."  You can't seriously believe TBM wasn't implying that his status as a priest gives him a leg up in the moral debate.  It's not even subtle.

                    •  You are entitled to believe (2+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      TrueBlueMajority, streetsmart96

                      as you wish, and I am entitled to believe as I wish, and I've seen how you have twisted words in these comments, hers and mine, so I'll agree to disagree.

                                  Heading off to bed,
                                       Heather

                      Torture is ALWAYS wrong, no matter who is doing it to whom.

                      by Chacounne on Sun Jan 16, 2011 at 09:48:32 PM PST

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                      •  fair enough! (0+ / 0-)

                        i'm always down with the agreement to disagree.  Discuss the points civilly, realize where we hit a crossroads, and move to the next topic.  Look forward to other discussions in the future, where I'm sure we'll agree more than disagree!

                      •  thanks Heather (0+ / 0-)

                        of course your interpretation is the one I intended.

                        but people of faith have been strong voices for social justice and equality ever since this country was founded.

                        and now more than ever it is important that progressive Christians step forward to challenge wingnuts who claim that conservative Republicans are the only people who have strong moral values.

                        Stephen Colbert is not an Episcopal priest, but he can go toe to toe on moral issues with anyone as well.  There are atheists on this blog who can go toe to toe on moral issues with anyone and whose integrity I trust on issues of morality ahead of some people who go to church all the time and make a big show out of pretending to be pious.

                        the campaign knows that there will be people like 291853 who will react to the priest thing out of their own prejudices and bad experiences with conservative religious moralists.

                        honestly, I think streetsmart96 knows what we both mean, and is just being contrary for his/her own reasons.

                        "Politics is like driving. To go backward put it in R. To go forward put it in D."

                        by TrueBlueMajority on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 04:17:53 AM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                    •  the whole diary after the jump (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      streetsmart96

                      is a summary of his background!  do I really need to write "here is his background" in front of each of those itemized points?  I had a long list of things I wanted to include and I put some of them together.

                      His status as a priest does not give him a leg up on claims of being more moral than others, as you assumed I meant.

                      But it does inoculate him against the "secular humanist" attack that Republicons love to throw around whenever progressives start talking about the social contract.

                      And it does neutralize the "we are the only people with positive moral values" attack that Republicons have used to brainwash a lot of gullible voters.

                      So when Rs get in his face and attempt to imply that no one can be a Democrat and a person of faith, he will be able to parry that thrust with grace and eloquence.

                      And he is able to do so in a way that is not offputting to agnostics and atheists and secular people and people of other faiths, highlighting the fact that although some of us are inspired by God and others are inspired by a moral center not based on God, we are working toward common goals.

                      Massachusetts is already comfortable with the idea of an elected official standing astride the intersection of faith and politics, so long as those politics reflect forward-thinking Massachusetts values.

                      again, it is interesting that you keep inferring a claim of superiority into the phrase "toe-to-toe", which I chose specifically as a hold your own statement of equality rather than a one up one down assertion.

                      "Politics is like driving. To go backward put it in R. To go forward put it in D."
                      I support Bob Massie for US Senate

                      by TrueBlueMajority on Mon Jan 17, 2011 at 05:07:16 AM PST

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