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View Diary: Jon Stewart shows Fox News = Nazi Reference Channel (+ Stephen on repeal!) (144 comments)

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  •  There is a reason this is happening: (19+ / 0-)

    The simplification and trivialization of modern American history into two basic precepts:

    1. The Nazis were evil.

    and

    1. We kicked their asses.

    (Meaning, if one can successfully term one's opponent a Nazi, it's OK to kick their ass.)

    (And yet no one mentions of the fact that the US employed throusands of former and stawart Nazis during the Cold War. Werner Von Braun, anyone? Anyone?)

    •  Exactly. This is the reason (7+ / 0-)

      for the squishy evasion "I'm saying they're Nazis; I'm just saying they're doing what the Nazis did."

      All that "generous" clarification means is, "I'm not saying they think Germany should take over Europe." Every other connotation of "Nazi" is still there.

      Fight until we win. Then we can begin arguing about the details. - Kwickkick (RIP) 2009

      by RickMassimo on Tue Jan 25, 2011 at 05:15:06 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Sorry. Importnat addendum. (8+ / 0-)

      Odd and widely underreported fact is, we didn't kick the Nazi's asses.

      The Russian Communists did. They were fighting the Nazis while we were still in Kindergarden arguing over whether or not FDR's New Deal should be given credit for ending the Great Depression.

      •  What Is The Story About A French Gun (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        elwior

        often dropped and never fired.

        BTW: I love me some French folks .....

        "In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." - George Orwell

        by webranding on Tue Jan 25, 2011 at 05:21:42 AM PST

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      •  Actually, no (13+ / 0-)

        The Russian Communists did. They were fighting the Nazis while we were still in Kindergarden arguing over whether or not FDR's New Deal should be given credit for ending the Great Depression.

        The Russian Communists were the Nazi's allies from 1939-41. Apparently you've never heard of the Molotove-Ribbentrop pact.

        In addition to stipulations of non-aggression, the treaty included a secret protocol dividing Northern and Eastern Europe into German and Soviet spheres of influence, anticipating potential "territorial and political rearrangements" of these countries. Thereafter, Germany and the Soviet Union invaded, on September 1 and 17 respectively, their respective sides of Poland, dividing the country between them. Part of eastern Finland was annexed by the Soviet Union after the Winter War. This was followed by Soviet annexations of Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and Bessarabia.

        The true fact of the matter is that the Soviets could probably not have won without massive material and logistical support from the allies. The war was won as much in the factories of Detroit and Pittsburgh as it was on any battlefield.

        Roosevelt and Churchil, great as they were, were all the same flawed human beings who made mistakes, and IMHO one of their biggest was pledging full and unconditional support to Stalin as opposed to publicly recognizing and making note of his willing alliance with Hitler and making all aid to the Soviets very grudgingly and on the most stringent of conditions. They should have seen Stalin for what he was--a monster every bit as bad as Hitler, if not many times worse.

        Al Qeada is a faith-based initiative.

        by drewfromct on Tue Jan 25, 2011 at 05:56:59 AM PST

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        •  Since we don't manufacture anymore (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          drewfromct, elwior, jfromga

          The war was won as much in the factories of Detroit and Pittsburgh as it was on any battlefield.

          How are we going to win the next World War? Now that manufacturing is beneath us. God forbid there is another World War, but you never know.

          Where are all the jobs, Boehner?

          by Dirtandiron on Tue Jan 25, 2011 at 06:05:32 AM PST

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        •  Actually, yes (4+ / 0-)

          WWII is not won without the Soviet Union. To be sure, it was a collaborative effort, but the Soviet Union contributed, by far, the greatest amount of resources and had the greatest sacrifices. For example, it is estimated that the US had just over one million casualities (civilian and military) while the Soviet Union had a staggering 24 million casualties.

          How's that "Drill Baby Drill" workin' out for ya?

          by DoubleT on Tue Jan 25, 2011 at 06:25:13 AM PST

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          •  Um, Actually (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            highacidity, elwior, jfromga

            WWII is not started without the complicity of the Soviet Union. You didn't read the link about Molotov-Ribbentrop, did you?

            Whatever sacrifices were made by the Soviets, they were for the most part brought on by their own leadership who made absolutely horrible decisions that led to tens of millions of unnecessary deaths.

            Al Qeada is a faith-based initiative.

            by drewfromct on Tue Jan 25, 2011 at 06:32:22 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  As Cool Or Sad As This Is (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Ice Blue, sherlyle, elwior

              father's PhD is in military history. The Civil War actually.  When most kids went to Disney Land as a kid I went to Civil War battlefield. I have to say I am kind of proud of that. I have no kids myself, but often those places are sad places.

              "In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." - George Orwell

              by webranding on Tue Jan 25, 2011 at 07:15:39 AM PST

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            •  Of course it would have occured without (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              elwior, Knarfc

              Soviet complicity.

              The network of alliances would surely have been different -- and it might have been delayed few years -- but the conflict between the three great political networks/ideologies of the early 20th century was inevitable.

              It's insane to blame the victims, the Soviet soldiers who were the cannon fodder against the Nazi threat -- as insane as blaming the average American soldier for the fact that the Anglo-American empire refused to either properly position Germany relative to it's industrial might after WWI, or nip Nazi ideology in the bud, since so many of our leaders were quite friendly to it --- Ford was an ideological Nazi, for example.

        •  I know about the earlier alliance, (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          elwior

          Which was broken before the US got involved. I am not debating that issue as long as you don't debate the USSR was at war with Germany long before the US was.

          •  Opps. Did I write alliance? (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            elwior

            See you got me going. It was a non-aggression (peace) treaty, though there were economic relations ongoing too.

            •  Freudian slip? (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              elwior

              The USSR was supplying food and raw materials to Hitler's Germany by the trainload, which is essentially what the U.S. was doing for Great Britain at exactly the same point in time.

              the USSR was at war with Germany long before the US was.

              Hitler attacked the Soviets in late June of 1941, about four and a half long months before declaring war on the U.S. in early December.

              Al Qeada is a faith-based initiative.

              by drewfromct on Tue Jan 25, 2011 at 11:00:01 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Everyone except perhaps France and the US were (0+ / 0-)

                "allied" in once sense or another with Germany at one point or another in the years prior to WWII. Even the US had significant economic relations with Hitler's Germany. Not sure about France.

                The alliance system was intended to forestall a war. Just like in WWI, that system ultimately failed. But it seemed to work for a while.

          •  Sorry, that's up for debate, too. (0+ / 0-)

            The US entered the war six months after Germany invaded the USSR.  I wouldn't call that "long before".  I will agree that the Russians were instrumental in winning the war.  Had Hitler not thinned out his forces by opening an eastern front, I don't see how we could have successfully invaded France.

            •  The US entry into WWII was precipitated by the (0+ / 0-)

              Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. It had nothing to do, really, with the Russo-German War.

              If Japan had not attacked the US then the US probably would not have fought Germany.

              In any case in those times of war six months was a lifetime of events, surprises, and changes.

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