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View Diary: Gay facts and fantasies in Propagannon research (340 comments)

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  •  Intelligence agents (4.00)
    I want to make a few points about intelligence agents because I think people have a lot of misperceptions about them (mainly do to James Bond flicks).

    And because I don't want to engage in tin foil hattery, I will not apply this to this Guckert case.  I'll let people draw their own conclusions.

    First of all, most of you don't know what a CIA agent is.  A CIA agent doesn't get paid by the CIA through their payroll department, with their FICA withheld.  That is how a CIA case officer gets paid.  Case officers recruit agents.  Case officers tend to have special aptitudes, like foreign language, or military experience.

    CIA agents come in all shapes and sizes, and the best of them may eventually become permanent CIA assets.

    Here we need to apply some common sense.  A heroin cartel is a billion dollar industry with enormous resources.  They can do a background check nearly as thorough as the FBI.  For this reason, it is very hard to penetrate a drug cartel with someone using a fake identity with a social security number that was only created last week.  It is also hard to make a Stanford graduate with a PhD in Spanish pass as the go-to guy for heroin distribution in Kansas City.

    What you need is an honest to goodness derelict with an established criminal record.  Recruit him to penetrate the cartel and you're in business.

    This has another very important fringe benefit.  If your derelict agent ever gets caught by the DEA or Customs with a planeload of horse, and he starts spouting off about how he is working for the CIA, you can say "Bullshit, this guy is a con-artist with a wrap sheet a mile long.  Look, he assualted his grandmother in 1983."

    The CIA actually prefers to have derelicts for these kinds of jobs.  But Naval Intelligence, which CAN spy on the homefront, is more notorious for actually manufacturing wrap sheets.

    It works like this: you have a guy go into a 7-11 and do a sloppy job of robbing them.  He gets arrested.  They print him, start processing his case, and then Naval Intelligence shows up and the guy gets either released, or he gets an absurdly light sentence.  These guys get lots of tattoos, hang out in rough bars, and basically cultivate an outlaw persona.  The CIA is not known for this because this tactic is primary useful for domestic spying.  

    In any case, we should never be surprised to see someone who is inexplicably successful, a con-man, a chameleon, with a nasty sordid past.

    Sometimes they were chosen BECAUSE of that past, and sometimes that past was manufactured with astonishing meticulousness.

    The Oval Office: Because there are no corners, there is nowhere to make the President sit when he has shamed the nation.

    by BooMan23 on Sat Feb 19, 2005 at 09:36:18 PM PST

    •  Like Lee Harvey Oswald (none)
      choose someone with a disreputable past...

      To thine own self be true - W.S.

      by Agathena on Sat Feb 19, 2005 at 11:35:45 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Oswald (none)
        could be an example of this tradecraft.  He could also be another kind of asset.  A stooge.

        In that case, Oswald would never have fired a shot, never known what was going to happen.

        Whether that is the case or not, it would be consistent with normal spycraft.

        The Oval Office: Because there are no corners, there is nowhere to make the President sit when he has shamed the nation.

        by BooMan23 on Sat Feb 19, 2005 at 11:50:24 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Sordid Past? (none)
      I'm a lesbian and am having a great time reading this diary and thread.  Great job.  But the justapositioning of drug cartels, derelict agents who have 'nasty sordid pasts' with a gay underworld is getting just a little too close to icky for me.  A gay orientation does not equal sordid or nasty.

      Concerning some of the historical spy rings noted above (Trilby, etc.):  Those agents were recruited at university, they were intelligent idealogues who happened to run with a gay clique.  They were vulnerable to blackmail because of their homosexuality, and probably made such excellent double agents because of their experience living closeted lives.

      The reason most cited for expelling gay people from our government jobs used to be that they were vulnerable to blackmail and therefore could not be trusted in top-secret positions.  However, UNCLOSETED gay folks are not vulnerable to blackmail because they are OUT.

      For those wondering about this secret gay Republican underground, just remember:  these guys are in the closet.  They are mostly white males who love power and the traditional perks of white maleness.  They know that those "other homos" -- the fags, the fairies, the fruits, the pansies, the girlymen -- have no power.  They protect each other.  They live vicariously through the power of others, often the power that they themselves bestowed on the others.  Hence your Karl Roves and your Ken Mehlmans.

      Here's a pertinent analogy:  Twenty-five years ago a bunch of well-off, upper middle class white gay guys, some who had homes in the Hamptons and on Fire Island, began to get sick.  Nobody cared about them, they were marginalized, they had an unspeakable disease.  They didn't understand why nobody would help them, why the government would not even acknowledge them.  Weren't they establishment guys?  Weren't they lawyers and doctors and other privileged white guys who had always enjoy their white guy privileges?  These were mostly closeted gays who had never before experienced discrimination.  Some of them remained closeted, afraid and dying alone, not even admitting they had AIDS because that was the gay disease.  Only fags died of AIDS.  This was Roy Cohn.  But some of them became angry at being neglected, they came out of the closet, they organized and they became Gay Men's Health Crisis and they became Act-UP.

      So try to keep this in mind as you are educating yourselves about this PropaGannon situation.  These are closeted power guys who don't want to be outed and become girlymen like those loser gay Democrats.  They are going to protect each other.  The gay angle to this story can be racy and fun, but, as Padraic said, this gay angle should be only illuminating background information and we should keep our eyes on the larger story.  Thanks for all the great posts.

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