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View Diary: Richard III and the Princes in the Tower (w/poll) (118 comments)

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  •  Have not read the Ford book, I do find a (0+ / 0-)

    review here.

    On the illegitimate argument, this is not really very compelling.

    there had been various other statutes over the years, these could be reversed and just weren't very strong.  Over the Wars of the Roses the control over the throne shifted back and forth multiple times, and whoever had the most spears and the most money ended up writing the laws.

    Also, while I did not mention this in the main diary, it seems that after the death of his wife Anne Neville in early 1485, R3 was attempting to marry Elizabeth York, the Queen Dowager's daughter (and his own niece, of course).  It seems unlikely he would have done so if he had genuine belief that she was a bastard.

    You have exactly 10 seconds to change that look of disgusting pity into one of enormous respect!

    by Cartoon Peril on Sat Jan 29, 2011 at 07:57:11 PM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  Hve you read Sunne in Splendour by (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      vcmvo2, Cartoon Peril

      Sharon K Penman? If not,I think you'd enjoy it.

      "George RR Martin is not your bitch" ~~ Neil Gaiman

      by tardis10 on Sat Jan 29, 2011 at 09:03:18 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  No Richard was NOT planning to marry his niece (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Floja Roja, Cartoon Peril

      That's Tudor propaganda impure and simple. He was in fact negotiating with the Crown of Portugal to marry her to the young Duke of Beja, Manuel, who was at the time second in line to the throne (he got bumped up to heir-presumptive after the death of the heir in 1491 and wound up as King Manuel I). It was part of a package deal whereby Richard would marry the King's sister Joana - but unfortunately Joana had an unshakable religious vocation and would have none of it. Something might possibly have been salvaged had Richard won the Battle of Bosworth...but he did not, and that was the end of that.

      As for Manuel, he married three times: once to the widow of the heir (Isabella of Asturias), who soon died in childbirth of a son who lived only two or three years; once to her younger sister Maria, who gave him ten children; and once more to Eleanor of Hapsburg, who gave him two more children before Manuel himself croaked in 1521. (Eleanor went on to marry Francis I of France, but had no more children.)

      Isabella and Maria were older sisters to Catherine of Aragon.

      If it's
      Not your body
      Then it's
      Not your choice
      AND it's
      None of your damn business!

      by TheOtherMaven on Sun Jan 30, 2011 at 05:26:46 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  wasn't there a Joanna the Mad in there somewhere? (0+ / 0-)

        You have exactly 10 seconds to change that look of disgusting pity into one of enormous respect!

        by Cartoon Peril on Sun Jan 30, 2011 at 09:05:10 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  She was the oldest sister (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Cartoon Peril

          and married the only son of Maximilian I (Holy Roman Emperor - see how complicated the relationships get?). Philip I lived long enough to be King of Spain as the only available male heir (Ferdinand and Isabella had a son, but he died in his teens of illness and left no issue). However, he predeceased his father, which left his son Charles as a leading contender for the position of Emperor in his turn, and Granddad had greased quite a few wheels to make it so. (Francis I also campaigned for the position, but lost out in the final rounds.)

          Charles was the King of Spain who sponsored the Conquest of Mexico and got the lion's share of the profits.

          If it's
          Not your body
          Then it's
          Not your choice
          AND it's
          None of your damn business!

          by TheOtherMaven on Mon Jan 31, 2011 at 07:00:41 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

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