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View Diary: Richard III and the Princes in the Tower (w/poll) (118 comments)

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  •  Oh come now! (2+ / 0-)
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    Cartoon Peril, TheOtherMaven

    I got him off in my first trial in my college Shakespeare class. No reliable history is extant because the Tudors and Lancasters killed of all friendly sources to Richard! You either accepted that "history" or you were a traitor! And Henry the VII was a miserable man. He had the Star Chamber and he was an usurper after all.

    Shakespeare wrote a wonderful play and did a great villain in his vision of Richard, but his patron was Elizabeth I and he was no dope!

    In our sleep,pain which cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart until, in our own despair, comes understanding through the awful grace of God RFK

    by vcmvo2 on Sun Jan 30, 2011 at 12:21:57 PM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  Au contraire, we have Croyland, Mancini, and (0+ / 0-)

      Commines, the last two not even English.  Commines really has to be read, in terms a fully realistic appraisal of the diplomatic and espionage situation in Europe.  The translation I read was very modern, very precise.

      My position is really that the Princes were dead by the fall of 1483, that they did not die of natural causes, and tht they could not have been killed without the authority of Richard.  That doesn't excuse Buckingham, whose role in this whole affair remains suspicious.

      It is possible that the princes were killed in a failed rescue scenario, but there is no evidence of that.  

      Also, Henry Tudor certainly had a motive to bump them off, but it seems unlikely that Elizabeth Woodville would have consented to have him marry her daughter if that were the case.  Also, there has to be some evidence they were alive in August 1485, and this I have not seen.

      You have exactly 10 seconds to change that look of disgusting pity into one of enormous respect!

      by Cartoon Peril on Sun Jan 30, 2011 at 02:00:55 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

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