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View Diary: earthship koch:  rec this up (208 comments)

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  •  Excellent work you're doing to expose the Koch (19+ / 0-)


    The police in that pic look menacing.

    I hate to think what the crackdown would look like if we ever protested like the fearless Egyptians.  

    Even worse, I hate to think what this country would look like if the "Libertarian Brotherhood" assumed control and installed a theocratic government, based on dictatorial markets, religion, and blind faith.

    •  It is so interesting to see how the protests (8+ / 0-)

      are handled here compared to the strikes in France and the marches in Tunisia.  The police are with the people.

      In Egypt the army is with the people, but the police are extensions of Mubarak but gave way rather than fight their countrymen.  

      If we ever mount large peaceful protests, will it be like this?

      "Never, desist till we ... extinguish this bloody traffic, of which our posterity, will scarce believe that it suffered a disgrace and dishonor to this country.

      by Regina in a Sears Kit House on Sun Jan 30, 2011 at 04:39:52 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Xe :( (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        aliasalias, Randtntx


        Willie Nelson forms Teapot Party - "We lean a little to the left. Tax it, regulate it, legalize it."

        by cotterperson on Sun Jan 30, 2011 at 05:50:58 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  I'm not sure, but let 3 or 4 peaceful (0+ / 0-)

        protesters, out of hundreds, get shoved by the police, and then they shove back, maybe tip a car over, and the American police would likely respond with force, tear gas, batons, and other brutal crowd control techniques.

        Let someone set a car on fire or start looting stores, and all hell would break loose.

        We all know the history of Kent State, Jackson State, Pittsburgh G20, Seattle, San Diego, and union strike busting.  

        Got to protect private property at all costs, or the rich campaign contributors would not be happy campers, you know.

        •  Law Enforcement planting agent provocateurs in (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Randtntx, Jose Bidenio

          activist groups with any sort of a following or gaining traction has been a tradition going on for decades. 'Spot the Fed' was a part of late 60's/early 70's planning meetings, lectures, rallies, and marches.  

          You needed to know who to photo or video throwing the first bricks, rocks, Molotov cocktails, breaking windows and stealing goods from 'surprised, angry and possibly armed shopholders' (such may be more provocateurs playing their role in righteous retaliation that kicks up the chaos, confusion, fear and panic).  It's likely these are the guys quick to throw the first punch or kick at an officer (prepared for this) or spook a well-trained horse. Look for government issue boots on their feet at the event.  They'll want to be able to move through chaotic conditions and jogging shoes won't do.  

          This is the stuff law enforcement has been known to pull, calling it counter intelligence and action or a COINTEL operation, and the FBI, Chicago cops, Minneapolois cops, NYC cops, Seattle, etc. all have 'task forces' which carry this out.  Gaining initial access to a growing group, working to gain trust of as many insiders as possible, to get plans, strategic goals, tactical means...all to make it easier to stage what they judge makes it a sure thing to discredit this group as dangerous extremists in front of the media, and getting as many if not all the ring leaders arrested--that is job #1. They get background information on those who appear to be the main influencers, who are strategic thinkers, tactical advisors, any who might have had past military training or other special skills, and map out the primary participants in their social networks.  Then figure out which people are most prone to race to help leaders in a crunch, and plan their event disruption strategy with this sort of information.

          Look for the guy egging others to throw something at police or do property damage to a business.  Look for the guy screaming 'pig' in the face of police the loudest trying to get the crowd to join in. Look for the guy asking if anyone is finally ready to take real revolutionary action to take down 'the man', perhaps with guns, Molotov cocktails, or even bombs of various kinds.  He might know somebody who knows how to get some of that if anyone is interested, maybe as a just in case thing, since you know how police like to over-react.

          Look for the guy pulling a pack from behind bushes or from behind a wall that is full of items for breaking windows, starting fires, and generally creating 'real anarchy', which is what every one fears about peaceful protests, that somehow they always lead to anarchy and the media always seem to be right on the spot for when it happens.  Well, they are indeed led to anarchy by these embedded law enforcement agents, and very likely a tipped off media.  

          Most protesters and activists are focused on getting their message heard, keeping each other safe, and making it there, being heard and seen, and getting home again in one peace.  A subset may be willing to be arrested for peaceful, passive civil disobedience, They volunteer for this before hand, received training and set up preplanned legal aid and supporters to track their welfare as they endure the increasingly brutal arrests, incarcerations, and delays in providing access to lawyers, phones, and their private property. Those not electing to join in civil disobedience would be told to keep clear of the committed group.  There were many things to do besides be in those front lines.  Watching police behavior for clues they are starting to herd large groups protesters towards areas set up for mass arrests is a key job, as well as recognizing when lines of police are forming to physically assault a close pressed crowd (in the name of 'containing it').  

          Monitoring those arrested for health issues arising from arrest is a pretty hard job when there's tear gas, masses of armed and armored police officers surrounding them and making sure they get thrown hard to the ground, are cuffed with blood-constricting wrist-ties, possibly beaten with batons, heavy flashlights, kicked with boots or holding heads down with boots.  It's so hard to watch and not jump into the fray. But capturing the video and sound evidence is essential for the legal defenders, and civil suits, and for securing immediate medical help as soon as possible. Showing such video to EMTs can help them know you have valid claims of injury to report and they may be able to glean what they need to address and what sort of medical might be necessary.

          If key offices or homes are burglarized of computers or hit by SWAT teams for conspiracy to riot, that's a clue that the event crowds may face serious risk to life and limb and it will be professionally carried out with military precision. And they usually think they are protecting America by doing all this.

          When life gives you wingnuts, make wingnut butter!

          by antirove on Sun Jan 30, 2011 at 11:51:59 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Deep. Thank you for this comment. I was also (0+ / 0-)

            thinking that the random rioter, having no interest in the peaceful intent and sincere, political objectives of the protest, and looking to riot for riot's sake and personal gain, may also spark panic and armed response.  These types of "protesters" should be monitored, contained, and neutralized as well as police agent provocateurs.

            But your point that protest planning, strategy, and tactics are vital, on both sides, is very instructive.

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