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  •  Women believe this too. In my classes when we (5+ / 0-)

    discuss abortion, it is more likely for women/girls to take the most radical position on abortion. Many of the pro-life women/girls in my classes, are absolutist. No abortions for any reason. When pressed with "life of the mother" they either answer, "It is God's will," or "The pregnancy has a reason."

    When pushed a little further, they get mad or just claim that is how they feel. No logic matters.

    If we are going to when this debate, we have to stop demonizing white Christian men. Women are guilty too. Plus, a lot of us white Christian men are on the side of women.

    •  Logic shouldn't matter in this case (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      julifolo, trashablanca

      What they seek is an easy morality, that has rigidly, firmly defined boundaries so as not to be presented with cases where uncertainty can lead to discomfort.

      "God's will" is a lot easier to swallow, than "I don't know what might be the right thing to do".

      Words can sometimes, in moments of grace, attain the quality of deeds. --Elie Wiesel

      by a gilas girl on Sat Feb 05, 2011 at 02:24:47 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  The anti-lightning rod faction (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      julifolo

      There have been religious people throughout history who believe that anything we do to improve our lives is a affront to "God's will".

      In America the earthquake of 1755 was widely ascribed, especially in Massachusetts, to Franklin's rod. The Rev. Thomas Prince, pastor of the Old South Church, published a sermon on the subject, and in the appendix expressed the opinion that the frequency of earthquakes may be due to the erection of ``iron points invented by the sagacious Mr. Franklin.'' He goes on to argue that ``in Boston are more erected than anywhere else in New England, and Boston seems to be more dreadfully shaken. Oh! there is no getting out of the mighty hand of God.''

      Three years later, John Adams, speaking of a conversation with Arbuthnot, a Boston physician, says: ``He began to prate upon the presumption of philosophy in erecting iron rods to draw the lightning from the clouds. He railed and foamed against the points and the presumption that erected them. He talked of presuming upon God, as Peter attempted to walk upon the water, and of attempting to control the artillery of heaven.''

      http://cscs.umich.edu/...

      It's a little hard for me to take seriously that this is a reason to go easy on Christian men.  It's a reason to oppose Christian nonsense period.

      •  There are also Christians who are pro-choice (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        MA Liberal, trashablanca

        and agnostics who are anti-choice.

        I never liked you and I always will.

        by Ray Blake on Sat Feb 05, 2011 at 05:09:11 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Right (0+ / 0-)

          Let's ignore the Catholic Church when it organizes anti-choice rallies, and the tens of thousands of churches that spend every Sunday talking about abortion.  But it's all about the anti-choice agnostics.  

          •  I'm not suggesting we ignore anything (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            MA Liberal

            only that we not make blanket assumptions about Christians or any other religious group. The idea that thousands of churches spend every Sunday talking about abortion, for example, is simply untrue. In most churches, the subject would never come up. In fact, most try to stay away from politics for fear of alienating people. The highly-politicized churches are statistically rare, but they get all the press. Most churches are way too middle-of-the-road and boring to get attention from the media.  

            I never liked you and I always will.

            by Ray Blake on Sat Feb 05, 2011 at 08:38:55 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

      •  Go "easy" on them? (0+ / 0-)

        There have been atrocities throughout history and they can't all be relegated to one religion.
        Mostly it's MEN who use religion as a tool of power. They do not embody anything close to what religion is supposed to be about.
        There is no reason to be hard on anyone (especially someone who did something back in 1755).
        You have so little human compassion it is astonishing.
        Believe what you want to believe. Why do you feel the need to force your beliefs down everyone's throats?
        If you want to believe in nothingness, it's your prerogative. Actually it suits you well.

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