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View Diary: Obama, Hillary, Now is a Good Time for the US to Remain Silent Regarding Iran UPDATED (164 comments)

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  •  My takeaway from this debate (1+ / 0-)
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    "Shut up bitch."

    The statement was hardly a controversial or even compelling statement. And the diary is self contradictory, as on one hand it posits that the Iranian people need to let the events unfold with no outside influence, while on the other hand US statements one way or another are to be regarded as important to the outcome.

    I think the lesson State learned from Egypt is that nothing they say or do will be determinative, so there's really no danger in speaking out against a recognized Fascist. Do you think the dictatorship will go easier on protestors if Hillary simply sticks a sock in it? Elsewhere on this thread Hillary is being called a neo-con! Pathetic! How many more years are we going to have these tired attacks and attempts at demonization?

    •  Actually this recent statement is (0+ / 0-)

      just the latest example of a failed policy. I have contended and I will continue to contend that the US needs to seriously alter their approach. We've been getting the same results from the same bellicose threatening and hypocritical grandstanding.

      Advising to remain mum is not saying "Shut up bitch." I do not appreciate the jump there either. Those are your words not mine.

      In the foreign policy realm, she's got a record of being pretty bellicose. I would not put her with John Bolton, but I think I stated pretty clearly where I would place her.

      You may find yourself in a beautiful house, with a beautiful wife, and you may ask yourself, "How did I get here?"

      by FrankCornish on Tue Feb 15, 2011 at 12:31:33 PM PST

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      •  Look at the tone of the criticisms here (0+ / 0-)

        The focus is on Hillary Clinton to the exclusion of anyone else. I don't notice anywhere in the diary or comments where you cite "bellicose" statements from her. And according to you the proper policy is to "say nothing," as opposed to saying...something. Speech of whatever variety constitutes failure and silence will win the day because ponies.

        If you don't recognize there is a context for critiques of women in high office, than that's not my fault. It is not fair to offer a critique from a "post-feminist" perspective when the right to adopt that position hasn't been earned. The diary and especially the tone of the discussion it has set in motion sets my teeth on edge, and that is an occasion for which I am similarly not appreciative.

        •  Then don't read it. (0+ / 0-)

          Did you see the update? Also note this is what I stated in the diary after the quote :

          There is some truth to this. The current wave of unrest has riled the discontent that was successfully bottled by the Iranian Regime in 2010. However, even if this is true, the US and its' representatives are the last people who should be making a point of it.

          I stand by criticism of Clinton's foreign policy as a Senator, in the primary campaign and as Secretary of State. I wish she was not Secretary of State. However, I do realize that Obama is virtually indistinguishable at this point. Again--notice the change of title as well. I wrote the piece on what was said at the time.

          If you recall last spring--Obama wrote a letter to Erdogan and Lula encouraging them to try to get a deal on the nuclear material swap with Iran. They subsequently did, but Secretary Clinton dismissed it out of hand immediately and publicly. I don't think this was what Obama wanted, but once she spoke publicly he could not correct her without undercutting her credibility. It was a critical policy mistake. I still harbor hope that Obama might push policy in a direction different from how Clinton appears to be shaping it. I'm not holding my breath.

          Now, I make this analysis without prejudice. I have little doubt that I would have been quite happy with Clinton as Secretary of Health or Transportation or even Defense, but State--I don't like.

          And finally, yes, silence is better--because regarding Iran, just about anything said by the US government is hypocritical. Stuxnet was an act of war. Our policies have the effect of strengthening the most bellicose elements in Iran. The current administration is not at all the worst offender in this regard, but policy has changed very little nonetheless.

          You may find yourself in a beautiful house, with a beautiful wife, and you may ask yourself, "How did I get here?"

          by FrankCornish on Wed Feb 16, 2011 at 12:54:17 PM PST

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