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View Diary: I'm sorry my government tortured you, David (146 comments)

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  •  South America is fertile ground... (12+ / 0-)

    to see how large this problem is.  We have incurred state responsibility, and there may be crimes against humanity or domestic violations.  In other places, many torture victims simply disappear and we never know the story.  This is the cycle that should be broken, when states torture and kill on a large scale, systematic basis with impunity.  

    Some say that torture treaties and legislation not only prohibits, but prescribes conduct that otherwise might be torture, by attempting to draw a line.  

    In any event, it would seem the means by which torture policies were changed was criminally unlawful, as the outcome was known by the participants, and unreasonable from a legal standpoint.

    If justice ever comes in this matter, it will take time for litigants to work the process, and may result in compensation under state rather than individual responsibility.

    •  It seems that, at the very least, the lawyers (8+ / 0-)

      are vulnerable.  There is enough information in the public domain to at least start building a case there.  In fact, any attempt to create legal justification for torture is a war crime.  It is unfortunate that a significant number of people believe that the torture lawyers created loopholes and ways to make prosecution difficult.  This is not so.

      Are you saying that, by defining torture, one has almost condoned behavior that falls just short of the definition?

      Don't believe everything you think.

      by geomoo on Wed Feb 16, 2011 at 11:55:19 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  nevertheless (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      geomoo

      by the rules of modern jurisprudence in much of the western world, if you want to make it something a crime, you must meet minimum due process, which means describing the acts that constitute the crime so that persons are put on notice.

      So that we may prosecute (which isn't being done here) under the treaties, there must be some line drawn, some words used to describe the crimes.  We cannot have a crime without a description of the proscribed behavior.  Which means that persons of ill intent will do their best to game the system, play with words, tailor actions to be at but not over the line.  

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