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View Diary: What Governor Walker Is Really Threatening (216 comments)

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  •  To a degree (52+ / 0-)

    ...this is a lesson in why Democrats should have turned out in November.  I'm of the opinion that this latest crop of Republicans are actually WORSE than the Bush/Cheney neo-con oil barons.  Say what you want about Bush, but they never attacked women's rights like they currently are in Congress.  Bush seemed more interested in using that group of righties to get votes but that was about it.

    The current republicans are interested in completely dismantling all the progress of the last 100+ years.  I'm only surprised that none of them are trying to get slavery reinstated in the south.  At least, they're not saying it out loud.

    •  Totally agree (21+ / 0-)

      Why didn't Democrats turn out in  November.

       We see the consequences.

       And no Democrats are not just like Republicans.

      ~a little change goes a long way~

      by missliberties on Sat Feb 19, 2011 at 07:37:00 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  It's not that simple (25+ / 0-)

        Most elections are decided by independents, aka wishy washy voters. The Citizens United decision resulted in a torrent of anti-Feingold, anti-Barrett, and anti-Democrat ads going on 24/7. Everyone I know voted, and none of them voted for Republicans. Throw in right wing union workers in Green Bay heavily supporting Walker, and you see how difficult it was for Democrats to prevail. They're all sorry now, but the die is cast.

        Battleground Wisconsin: Fascism has come to America

        by jhecht on Sat Feb 19, 2011 at 08:40:16 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  oh, bullshit. I've heard about "independents" sinc (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          esquimaux, Cynic in seattle, Bmeis

          e Hector was a pup, and they're a minority -- and a non-liable-to-turnout minority at that -- in damn near the whole country.

          They're catered to and kowtowed to at the cost of aggravating the progressives, irritating traditional Dems, and letting the GOP have its way, and it's long past time we started campaigning on the issues and positions that will help working people in this country again, just like LBJ did.

          The independents will figure out which side their bread is buttered on.

          LBJ & Lady Bird, Sully Sullenberger, Molly Ivins, Barbara Jordan, Ann Richards, Drew Brees: Texas is No Bush League! -7.50,-5.59

          by BlackSheep1 on Sat Feb 19, 2011 at 11:53:50 AM PST

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          •  jhecht wasn't saying that Dems should go blue dog (0+ / 0-)

            to win the independents. S/he was simply saying that the anti-Democratic noise machine (made stronger post-Citizens United) makes it harder for Democrats to win the independent vote. I don't see how that's a "bullshit" statement.

            Even though our dream is not yet completed... we are not quitters... and we are not through. Ty'Sheoma Bethea

            by Nowhere Man on Sat Feb 19, 2011 at 09:11:36 PM PST

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            •  it's the catering to the independents I find (0+ / 0-)

              objectionable. Execrable, actually.

              If they can't make up their feeble minds on common sense, they deserve to have to learn the hard way. Sadly, they're dragging us all under in their wake.

              LBJ & Lady Bird, Sully Sullenberger, Molly Ivins, Barbara Jordan, Ann Richards, Drew Brees: Texas is No Bush League! -7.50,-5.59

              by BlackSheep1 on Sat Feb 19, 2011 at 09:19:39 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

        •  State Dem Party apparatchiks still toe DNC line (5+ / 0-)

          They are very happy to take your money and vote, but when they get their candidates into office, all of a sudden progressives are shown the door, and there we stand, outside, knocking, with our little woebegone faces all teary-eyed, until the next time they need us.

          The problem is with the party apparatus.  They are in bed with the rest of the War Party, and that is why little if nothing ever changes. Dems who don't realize this quickly become disillusioned and figure what's the use.

          Organize in your county and take over your Dem county apparatus.  Then your state legislative districts.  Then the state party.  Then you'll see some real action.

          Until then, it's the crumbs we can wrest from their short vulgarian fingers.

      •  Some Democrats didn't turn out (13+ / 0-)

        Because they had legitimate grievances. Unfortunately when they raised those grievances they were ignored and ridiculed. People like you stomped your feet and threatened them with President Palin if they didn't fall in line.

        It will be interesting to see if anything was learned the last time around.

        "If you give the people a choice between a watered-down Republican and a Republican, they will choose the real thing every time." Harry Truman

        by Haningchadus14 on Sat Feb 19, 2011 at 08:53:37 AM PST

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        •  I am still stomping my feet (9+ / 0-)

          and I am still pissed.

          Depressing democratic voter turn out with a constant stream of negativity and 'the culture of grievance' when we have a democratic President = stupid.

           Tell me how happy you are with Governor Walker because expressing legitimate greivances was so important to you that we just had to elect republicans to teach Obama a lesson?

           The teachers do not thank you for Gov Walkers election win.

          ~a little change goes a long way~

          by missliberties on Sat Feb 19, 2011 at 09:45:10 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  You should read this article. (11+ / 0-)

            http://www.businessweek.com/...

            Unions spent a record $450 million helping elect Democrats to Congress and the White House in 2008. With a mixed record of success going into the mid-term 2010 congressional elections, they are wondering what to do now.

            ‘Not Happy’

            “We’re demoralized,” said Robert Haynes, president of the Massachusetts AFL-CIO. “We’re not happy about anything.”

            From just a year ago - when union political strategy for 2010 was being formed.  

            •  Aren't we all wondering what (6+ / 0-)

              to do now?

               That unions are even still standing is a tribute to their strength considering the long war that has been waged against workers.

               I am pleased to see the workers of Wisconsin stand strong and send a message to the rest of the country.

               We just need to be clear on exactly what Walker is really doing. He is trying to destroy public unions, a GOP wet dream for decades now.

              ~a little change goes a long way~

              by missliberties on Sat Feb 19, 2011 at 10:22:48 AM PST

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              •  Actually, first we need to explain (11+ / 0-)

                how important unions are to all workers unionized or not, then maybe more Americans would realize how critical this fight in Wisconsin and the others like it are to all of us.

                •  Unions aren't to blame (7+ / 0-)

                  for our budget problems.

                   Let's try that first.

                   What we should point out as I said earlier is that corruption in politics has been the problem.

                  Let's be clear: Whatever fiscal problems Wisconsin is -- or is not -- facing at the moment, they're not caused by labor unions. That's also true for New Jersey, for Ohio and for the other states. There was no sharp rise in collective bargaining in 2006 and 2007, no major reforms of the country's labor laws, no dramatic change in how unions organize. And yet, state budgets collapsed. Revenues plummeted. Taxes had to go up, and spending had to go down, all across the country.

                  Blame the banks. Blame global capital flows. Blame lax regulation of Wall Street. Blame home buyers, or home sellers. But don't blame the unions. Not for this recession

                  .
                   Don't Blame the Unions

                   Thinking that unions had any part to play in any of this when the workers have been making all kinds of concessions is the wrong message completely.

                  ~a little change goes a long way~

                  by missliberties on Sat Feb 19, 2011 at 12:29:38 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                •  Start blaming Walker (6+ / 0-)

                  for manufacturing the crises in the first place so he could use Unions as a scapegoat.

                  This is why we should be completely seething mad.

                   The Republicans did it again. They passed tax cuts without paying for them and now want to balance the budget off the backs of the workers. This is why we should be furious to the hilt.

                   NO discussion of this issue should be had without bring up tax cuts that weren't paid for with the intention of breaking the backs of the unions.

                   

                  The governor called a special session of the legislature and signed two business tax breaks and a conservative health-care policy experiment that lowers overall tax revenues (among other things). The new legislation was not offset, and it helped turn a surplus into a deficit [see update at end of post]. As Brian Beutler writes, "public workers are being asked to pick up the tab for this agenda."

                  ~a little change goes a long way~

                  by missliberties on Sat Feb 19, 2011 at 12:33:31 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Blaming isn't going to get (3+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    JVolvo, cameoanne, JesseCW

                    anything done for the long-haul, though.

                    Ever since Reagan and his wife's "Just say no" campaign, this country has been obsessed with what NOT to do rather than what to do.  We focus on trying to eliminate the negative rather than working to expand and strengthen the foundations of the positive.

                    Democrats need to sell something rather than just playing defense all of the time.  But first they have to make the case - they have to talk about what's good - and explain why what's good is good.  If they don't start that narrative and go strong with it, we are going to continue to have to fight and probably lose these battles more often than not.

                  •  Income transfer (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    missliberties, JVolvo

                    from workers to business.  The damn Republicans say they hate "socialism" and income transfers funded by taxes, so call Walker's move what it REALLY is:  socialism for business, and an income transfer made by government action in which income was taken by force from workers and handed over to the tycoons.  If conservatives argue income transfer by force under cover of calling it "taxes" is wrong, then income transfer by force under cover of calling it a "reduction" in taxes to business is wrong.  They can only defend this move by saying they want no government at all--so who is going to pay for defense and defend us, or police us, or protect us from dangerous products or pave our streets, and on and on.  This is an indefensible move by any logic.  Tell the Republicans defending Walker to read the parable of the rich man taking the poor man's single lamb and having it for dinner--even their so-called god didn't support snatching the food off the worker's plate and handing it over to the fat, cigar chomping rich businessmen.  In fact, as I recall it, their Bible says the laborer is worthy of his hire, and to render to Caesar that which is Caesar's (this is, pay taxes to the state because the state has a RIGHT to collect taxes for the common good).

                    When you lie down with Blue Dogs, you wake up with Teaparty fleas

                    by monkeybrainpolitics on Sat Feb 19, 2011 at 01:14:29 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

          •  sometimes when enough people are threatened (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Bulldawg, Bluesee, Ice Blue

            they finally decide to take a stand together. It is the only way that change can actually happen. In the short term it makes life difficult for many people but  the potential for long term gain is tremendous. I have contributed money and offered support to the teachers and other public sector workers in Wisconsin. They need our support as they take on a very important fight against the mega wealth and power that is destroying our democracy.

            Infidels in all ages have battled for the rights of man, and have at all times been the advocates of truth and justice... Robert Ingersol

            by BMarshall on Sat Feb 19, 2011 at 10:28:54 AM PST

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          •  Yeah I guess (0+ / 0-)

            we thought that our democratic majorities were invincible since we always claim to hold the moral high ground on the issues and that constant complaining about our side would really enhance voter turn out.

            ~a little change goes a long way~

            by missliberties on Sat Feb 19, 2011 at 10:46:27 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  The Republican sweep was the result (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            JesseCW

            of the national  Democratic leadershio following neo-liberal economic policies espoused by the present administration.

            The Wisconsin state senators have indicated which side they are on. We know which side the Thugs are on. It is time for the national Democrats to stand up and unequivocally state their position. No tepid statements. No bipartisan nonsense. A simple "I stand with the unions in Wisconsin" will suffice. One word ... Solidarity ... will suffice. The question is whether it will happen.

            A proud member of the Professional Left since 1967.

            by slatsg on Sat Feb 19, 2011 at 02:00:49 PM PST

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        •  Unfortunately for Obama (7+ / 0-)

          unless he does something drastic to return our country to the rule of law he will be unelectable to a large block of progressives.

          A kinder gentler torture regime is not good enough.

          Covering for the Bushies and embracing the worst of his unconstitutional policies defeats any small gains he has made.

          Perhaps if the dems lose as seems likely, unless a Palin type ticket is announced, they will begin to understand that supporting corporatists at our expense will not win elections no matter how much we hate repukes and their odious philosophies.

          •  Lyndon LeRouche (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Rustbelt Dem

            is that you.

             

            ~a little change goes a long way~

            by missliberties on Sat Feb 19, 2011 at 09:53:20 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  missliberties, I too believe this President could (10+ / 0-)

              do more to restore the America that we had before Bush, if he only would. He should, in fact, do so, for the sake of our future.

              Pretty words are fine. A grown-up demeanor is okay. But there's a limit to how much bending-over-backwards to accommodate pissy-fit throwing GOP idjits we can stand, from David Brooks to John of Orange.

              It's necessary to uphold the law even when the miscreants are well-off financially and highly-placed politically, or the law loses all meaning.

              It's necessary to promote the common good (as part of the national defense, if for no other reason -- were we to be attacked tomorrow as we were on 7/12/41, how would we respond? Would we be able to muster the man and woman power to build the planes and ships and jeeps and rifles to win a war like WWII? Are the kids smart enough and fit enough to fall into those jobs and into that soldiery? Are the middle-aged and older still motivated enough to want to support such an effort? I have my doubts -- and it's not the Democrats I doubt, these days. It's the Balkanizers, the anti-immigrant, the anti-woman, the anti-brown, the anti-GLBT, the anti-Muslim, the anti-Native American, the Shiite Baptists with their claims that the Rapture is coming and there's no use trying to keep the country together anyway, the anti-taxers -- can you imagine what they'd say if the Congress did what was done in FDR's day and put a realistic tax rate on the upper 50% of incomes in this country? Hell, they'd secede if it went back to Reagan-level taxes!) and it's necessary, as part of that, to take care of some of our citizens even if that doesn't increase the bottom-line profits of the upper crust's corporate stocks.

              But more to the point, we must stop torturing and we must prosecute those -- Rumsfeld, Rice, Bush, Cheney and right on down to the NCOs and junior enlisted who didn't recognize and refuse the illegal orders given them -- who made us a nation of torturers, of renditioners, of sellouts to the cruelty and evil that is always the lazy answer when confronted by overwhelming fear.

              While we're at it we should put rules in place to stop those who gin up more fear -- those like Beck and Limbaugh and Murdoch -- from having unfettered control of all media outlets that don't cost consumers big money to access. It's a matter of national security to stop them splintering our populace, turning our people against one another, against the law, against principles of American liberty and civil rights.

              And Obama could lead -- needs to lead -- much more strongly in that direction.

              LBJ & Lady Bird, Sully Sullenberger, Molly Ivins, Barbara Jordan, Ann Richards, Drew Brees: Texas is No Bush League! -7.50,-5.59

              by BlackSheep1 on Sat Feb 19, 2011 at 12:07:23 PM PST

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            •  Is that one of those personal insults (0+ / 0-)

              you so often insist you detest?

              Everyone knows that only witches stand up for accused witches!!

              by JesseCW on Sat Feb 19, 2011 at 02:27:13 PM PST

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          •  The President won by ten million votes. (0+ / 0-)

            That was huge.  He remains popular.  Incumbents have the advantage.  I don't see him losing, especially to any of the sorry crop of Republicans out there.

        •  Say hello to Haningchadus13 (0+ / 0-)

          Is this your red state cousin?

           Kind of weird. I guess it could just be a freak coincidence.

          ~a little change goes a long way~

          by missliberties on Sat Feb 19, 2011 at 11:15:11 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  And who turned out to be right? (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          dmh44
          People like you stomped your feet and threatened them with President Palin if they didn't fall in line.

          It's not President Palin, obviously, because it wasn't a presidential election. But surely you agree that on the state level in Wisconsin, those people staying home resulted in things getting about as bad as it was possible for them to get -- the WI equivalent of a Palin presidency.

          Whatever their grievances, they should indeed have fallen in line.

          "These are not candidates. These are the empty stand-ins for lobbyists' policies to be legislated later." - Chimpy, 9/24/10

          by NWTerriD on Sat Feb 19, 2011 at 12:09:51 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  But they didn't, did they? (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            cameoanne

            And they never do, do they?

            Offering nothing but threats doesn't get Democrats to the polls.  

            It's not going to magically start working at some point.

            Everyone knows that only witches stand up for accused witches!!

            by JesseCW on Sat Feb 19, 2011 at 02:31:16 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

        •  Yeah, (0+ / 0-)

          How'd that work out for ya?

          "If there was hope, it must lie in the proles, because only there...could the force to destroy the Party ever be generated." - 1984

          by Bulldawg on Sat Feb 19, 2011 at 02:23:01 PM PST

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      •  yawn. gotta keep flogging it, huh? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        myboo

        at least you are consistent...

        The Republican motto: "There's been a lot of progress in this country over the last 75 years, and we've been against all of it." ~ Hillbilly Dem's 78-yo Dad

        by JVolvo on Sat Feb 19, 2011 at 01:52:40 PM PST

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    •  yep (11+ / 0-)

      ... bush stood knee deep in fascism.  The current crop of righties are 4 steps right of bush... all funded by corporate interests and supported by total ignorance.

      "Let me issue and control a nation's money and I care not who writes the laws." Mayer Amschel Rothschild, 1790

      by FreeTradeIsYourEpitaph on Sat Feb 19, 2011 at 09:10:14 AM PST

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    •  I tend to agree they're worse. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ssmt

      What worries me is this: Demographics are shifting. In 20 years, maybe 10, the GOP will be at significant risk of becoming a permanent second-tier party. In fact, that almost happened in 2010 in Colorado! When, not if, that happens, the corporatists will no longer have a purchased government to protect them from the backlash they so deserve.

      The corporatists know this. What would you do as an evil corporatist if you knew in 10 or 20 years your party would be toast, your evil would be exposed, and your cardboard kingdom would have pitchforks and torches at the door? I know what I'd do. Try to organize a coup, de facto or real. Idle speculation? I sure hope so. But knowing how these bastards operate, I worry.

      So yes, there's a very real risk these guys are worse. The current crop may very well want to actually take over the country, not just rip it off like the Bushies.

      What could BPossibly go wrong?? -RLMiller

      by nosleep4u on Sat Feb 19, 2011 at 10:29:14 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  BTW Bush did attack women's rights (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ssmt, BlackSheep1

      just mostly in other countries, not domestically.

      It was Bush policy to reduce access to contraceptives in Africa by holding aid hostage to abstinence-only programs.

      IMO that's even more evil than his torture network. He basically demanded that African countries increase their HIV infection rate.

      What could BPossibly go wrong?? -RLMiller

      by nosleep4u on Sat Feb 19, 2011 at 10:32:43 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  They're not worse, they're just more obvious (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ssmt

      Either they're cocky or stupid (or both), but they're not even bothering to hide their cruel intentions.

    •  asdf (0+ / 0-)
      I'm only surprised that none of them are trying to get slavery reinstated in the south.  At least, they're not saying it out loud.

      Well, until recently they weren't talking out loud about repealing child labor laws, either. Maybe the concept of reinstating slavery is our ultimate bellwether: When we hear them start advocating that in public, we'll know that they've finally reached that point that we've mistakenly believed they reached so often in the past -- the point where they absolutely, really, truly cannot sink any lower.

      "These are not candidates. These are the empty stand-ins for lobbyists' policies to be legislated later." - Chimpy, 9/24/10

      by NWTerriD on Sat Feb 19, 2011 at 12:06:08 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

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