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View Diary: Some Maps to consider... (185 comments)

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  •  Disagree strongly...massive fail... (0+ / 0-)

    we can do better than that cheap shot comparing to slavery...

    Obama - Change I still believe in

    by dvogel001 on Mon Feb 21, 2011 at 06:55:01 AM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  Not such a long shot. (9+ / 0-)

      The maps, particularly the third down, do correspond in part with the very real Slavery by Another Name.

      That was clearly a racial thing that intentionally criminalized being black and often stripped self employed people of property. That crap was in place during my lifetime, even my high school years.

      While those harsh laws were directed at "the other race" the poor white wasn't in a whole lot better shape down in one of those deep red states.

      I remember a textile mill town in which the mill owner made sure the city and county blocked any competitive job creating industry while engaged in rolling layoffs and importing labor by private bus lines existing solely for that purpose from sixty miles away across a state line. Every ordinary worker could expect to be "laid off" for months every few years as a "reminder" of the company's view on unions. Older folks remembered private police and a "camp" some miles outside town where "strikers" were taken after "arrest" so there was not even a whisper of "union" in those mills. That was during the sixties.

      The only foes that threaten America are the enemies at home, and those are ignorance, superstition, and incompetence. [Elbert Hubbard]

      by pelagicray on Mon Feb 21, 2011 at 08:16:22 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  That has absolutely... (0+ / 0-)

        NOTHING FUCKING TO DO WITH THE CURRENT TROUBLES IN THE UNION MOVEMENT...

        Obama - Change I still believe in

        by dvogel001 on Mon Feb 21, 2011 at 08:28:42 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  You seem to have a bit of a problem. (5+ / 0-)

          The diary is about some geographic parallels in a history of disregard for labor and current hot spots of TP/gop misrule.

          An argument can even be made that the differential penalties for crack and white cocaine have some tendrils of that old system in origin. So, no, the FishOutofWater comment to which you responded is not entirely a "massive fail" and your bolded all caps "yelling"

          NOTHING FUCKING TO DO WITH THE CURRENT TROUBLES IN THE UNION MOVEMENT...

          about my reference to the book seems either reading comprehension failure of some childish outburst because someone has a different take.

          The only foes that threaten America are the enemies at home, and those are ignorance, superstition, and incompetence. [Elbert Hubbard]

          by pelagicray on Mon Feb 21, 2011 at 08:58:03 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I am just so frigging... (0+ / 0-)

            tired of the racial overtones and inuendos that get into diaries and comments at DKos...why can't we make an argument without bringing race into the picture...

            WHY!!!!

            Obama - Change I still believe in

            by dvogel001 on Mon Feb 21, 2011 at 09:07:54 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Because perhaps there is more "racial" (6+ / 0-)

              history going on than many such as yourself may realize? Because the attitudes toward labor that could condone enslaving "lesser creatures" that were black so easily extended to "lesser humans" that were the pond scum of 18th and 19th Century British and U.S. society so that their children could be worked to death in mines and factories? The Dickensian exploitation of "poor white trash" took place nationwide. The specific extra exploitation on racial lines took place nationwide with particular and hateful focus in the South and with regard to Asians in the West. Those patterns of exploitation of the "lesser" runs deep in labor history as does politicized effort to smash any attempts those "lesser" made to organize and better their condition.

              A very notable aspect of my early days in the Deep South of the mid 20th Century was precisely the exploitation of both blacks and the poor whites while keeping the latter fearful and enraged at the former to prevent any logical alliance. You see that in movies such as To Kill A Mockingbird and The Great Debaters. There were people, usually in the professions (my family included) that saw that for what it was, fought against it as did the fictional Atticus Finch, but the commercial culture was overwhelmingly for that system.

              If you do not know that then you really do not know the history of labor, particularly in the South.

              The only foes that threaten America are the enemies at home, and those are ignorance, superstition, and incompetence. [Elbert Hubbard]

              by pelagicray on Mon Feb 21, 2011 at 09:22:01 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

            •  Why do you want to deny (4+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              chase, mamamedusa, pelagicray, kat68

              our country's history and its impact on the present? Why do you want no discussion pertaining to racism to take place on this site? Why do you refuse to acknowledge that racism has and does still play a role in most every issue we face? Why do you want us to close our eyes to that?

              What is your problem?

              •  I have found several fairly common reasons. (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                chase, mkor7, StepLeftStepForward

                First is ignorance.

                Most of the rest fall into "agenda" reasons, conscious and unconscious.

                The most interesting and convoluted of those are from African Americans that place the racial experience on such a special plane that it fits no where except where they as individuals have placed it. It is somewhat akin to those that deny anyone except Jews any "holocaust" experience regardless of how effective and brutal another extermination effort may have been.

                The most common in my experience is from people associated by race, culture or economic position with the past oppressions. We see that a great deal in the "I'm not associated with any racial oppression" even right here on this site when "affirmative action" or such is discussed.

                The book I reference here was particularly interesting in that it hit a lot of us, Bill Moyers included, who had grown up in the South that it existed right in front of our own eyes unrecognized. In fact, because our little towns, cities and counties used such labor to maintain public property and even manufacture bricks for buildings our own families, often opposed to segregation, did benefit. We, in our ignorance, paid less for our comforts because others were being exploited. It is a sour realization.

                Yep, in family papers I've found references to slaves and even in wills some of those really nasty implements of slavery. All the "benefits" gained were wiped out in the Civil War and then Great Depression so I got no material benefit from that. That saves me from some extra personal guilt perhaps. Now I know I drove on roads and otherwise benefited from a secondary exploitation. No, I don't feel abject guilt and weeping. I do feel a requirement to defend all reasonable affirmative actions to exterminate all vestiges in current society. I feel it necessary to snarl at racists. I also don't take very well to the "blind eye" and "I've no responsibility" crowd or just those denying any of that applies to something like the topic of this diary or the original comment.

                The only foes that threaten America are the enemies at home, and those are ignorance, superstition, and incompetence. [Elbert Hubbard]

                by pelagicray on Mon Feb 21, 2011 at 09:40:13 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  That book looks like a good read. (3+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  mamamedusa, pelagicray, sow hat

                  One dvogel might benefit from reading. I'm going to put it on my list. Thanks.

                  •  Very interesting and so are reactions. Dvogel here (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    mamamedusa, StepLeftStepForward

                    is beginning to sound very familiar. This is the one that even after the joke or assignment or problem is carefully explained still screams "I don't get it!" to the point one just wonders and wanders off shaking the head.

                    There is a connection, indirect, between the  post Southern Strategy GOP, now the TP/gop, and attitudes toward labor most prominent in the South. While unions were opposed everywhere it was there that unions were fought most bitterly and by exactly some of the same people with the attitudes that led to that Slavery by Another Name and before that the true slavery with the oft forgotten degradation of labor of any sort by anyone.

                    It is no damn accident that a paring of national "capital to the max" class anti-labor strain has been coupled with a strong Southern, often race based, strain to give us a TP/gop that is strongly "Southern" in a wide spectrum of attitudes.

                    The only foes that threaten America are the enemies at home, and those are ignorance, superstition, and incompetence. [Elbert Hubbard]

                    by pelagicray on Mon Feb 21, 2011 at 11:43:52 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

              •  Why do you and others want to promote... (0+ / 0-)

                the idea that everything has a racial overtone to it no matter how tenuous the linkage is...???

                Obama - Change I still believe in

                by dvogel001 on Mon Feb 21, 2011 at 10:42:15 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

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