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View Diary: Mike Huckabee needs to apologize to Muslims (again) (65 comments)

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  •  How do you explain grotesque violence of this kind (0+ / 0-)


    FOUR men slashed a teacher’s face because they did not approve of him teaching religion to Muslim girls.

    Tuesday February 22,2011

    Gary Smith was attacked with a Stanley knife, an iron rod and a block of cement.

    Mr Smith, who is head of religious education at Central Foundation Girls’ School in Bow, east London, also had a fractured skull.

    Akmol Hussein, 26, Sheikh Rashid, 27, Azad Hussain, 25, and Simon Alam, 19, are facing jail.

    They were heard condemning Mr Smith for “teaching other religions to our sisters”, the court heard.
    that takes place over and over and over in the name of Islam, everywhere around the world, with tens of thousands of innocent lives claimed every year,

    No other religion comes anywhere close to this level of relentless and gross religious violence. Please don't try to tell me otherwise.

    I don't want to told to shut my eyes to the overwhelming evidence here and get with the program. I have a stake in this as I want my children and grand children to inherit as safe and secure world as possible, and I want some serious and sincere answers, not clever apologetics or deflections.

    A Democratic-leaning Rational-Libertarian Liberal.

    by kickass on Mon Feb 21, 2011 at 09:23:05 PM PST

    •  Here's how I explain it: (13+ / 0-)

      The motivation that produces that hideous act is the same as the one that caused Protestants (and I'm a Protestant) to throw bricks at the heads of little Catholic schoolgirls in Northern Ireland who are doing nothing but walking along a street on the edge of a Protestant neighborhood between their home and school.  It's the same as the motivation that caused Catholics in Northern Ireland to plant bombs in pubs in Protestant neighborhoods.  It's the same as the motivation that caused Lutheran churches in Germany to exalt Nazism, and caused good German Christians to cooperate in sending innocent Jews to their deaths.  It's the same as the motivation that caused Franciscan priests to sell Native American children in the American Southwest into slavery in order to use the money to pay for a bell for the church.  It's the same as the motivation that caused Buddhists (normally the most peaceful of religions) to commit horrible acts of brutality against Hindus in Sri Lanka (and vice-versa).

      The common motivation in all of these situations is, as I see it, tribalism masquerading as religion.  One's co-religionists come to be seen as members of one's tribe, adherents of other religions come to be seen as members of other, enemy, tribes, and that leads to the result that it always does.

      The radical message of both Jesus and Muhammad is that there really IS no "other;" that we are all children of God.  Unfortunately, the followers of both Jesus and Muhammad haven't always been very keen on getting that message.

      Still PROUD to be a Democrat!

      by leevank on Mon Feb 21, 2011 at 10:56:10 PM PST

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      •  Wish I could rec this a gazillion times over... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        I'm an atheist, and this stuff has always seemed to me to be less about the religion than about wrapping an ugly values system in the name of religion.  

        (I disagree with atheists like Sam Harris btw:  Science and rationality have no place in them for narrow-minded bigotry, no matter who is promoting it and for whatever reason.)

        As for this

        The radical message of both Jesus and Muhammad is that there really IS no "other;" that we are all children of God.  Unfortunately, the followers of both Jesus and Muhammad haven't always been very keen on getting that message.

        Jesus called them out in Matthew 6.

        "What we do for ourselves dies with us; what we do for others, and the world, remains, and is immortal." -- Albert Pine

        by caul on Tue Feb 22, 2011 at 12:47:50 AM PST

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    •  Have you not read the Bible? (7+ / 0-)

      The Old Testament is a manual on when and where to stone people to death, especially troublesome children.

      Christians, Jews, pagans, animists, etc can provide you with sickening tomes of atrocities throughout the millenia. Not all made it to Fox news.

      Then of course, men are prone to torturing and killing fellow human beings for no religious reason at all. Politics, nationalility, gang affiliation, tribe,  someone dissed them, someone looked at them funny....

      •  Not only that (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Jeffersonian Democrat

        Beating one's enemies brains out against rocks, and killing every last man, woman, child, and head of livestock of one's enemies (and being punished by God if one doesn't do it).  And there are passages in the New Testament that can be (and have been) taken out of context to justify brutal violence (such as Matthew 10:34:  "I have come not to bring peace, but to bring a sword").

        Still PROUD to be a Democrat!

        by leevank on Tue Feb 22, 2011 at 06:13:07 AM PST

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    •  If you only look at the bad things people do (5+ / 0-)

      you get a distorted picture.  That site you linked to certainly does that.  It looks like little more than a hate site to me.  In addition to stories about crimes allegedly committed by Muslims, it contains jokes about them.  In fact, it's so brimming with hatred and contempt that it's probably in violation of community standards.

      •  The TROP site is an indispensable site (0+ / 1-)
        Recommended by:
        Hidden by:

        that provides a comprehensive list of Islamic terrorist attacks as gathered from around the world. Based on some cross-checking that I have done from time to time using internet search, I find the list to be sufficiently authentic.

        If you have a proof showing the list's accuracy to be below 50% or so, please share it. For even if the list is only 50% accurate, the violence is still of a grotesque scale, which is argument I am making using that list.

        I ignore the rest of the site's content, and recommend others to do the same.

        A Democratic-leaning Rational-Libertarian Liberal.

        by kickass on Tue Feb 22, 2011 at 05:13:41 AM PST

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        •  Bullshit distinction (2+ / 0-)

          Why don't you link us to a pro-Islamic site listing all the acts of charity and peaceful good deeds carried out in the name of the religion?

          And then if you do, you can always encourage us to ignore the pro-Islamic message.

          I don't think.

          Now not-really-blogging from Sheikh Jarrah

          by ignatz uk on Tue Feb 22, 2011 at 06:04:14 AM PST

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          •  He wouldn't even need that (0+ / 0-)

            Muslims were traditionally a tiny minority in Rwanda, but there were many conversions in the aftermath of the genocide because many Muslims sheltered Tutsis and members of mixed marriages from being slaughtered, while many supposedly "Christian" clerics were much more loyal to their tribe than to what Christ commanded them to do.  I have little doubt that Jesus would feel far more comfortable in a mosque whose members had sheltered innocents from slaughter than in a church whose members turned them over -- just as I have no doubt that Muhammad would feel more comfortable in my church than in a mosque whose leaders called for the slaughter of innocents.

            Still PROUD to be a Democrat!

            by leevank on Tue Feb 22, 2011 at 06:20:43 AM PST

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    •  How about the KKK, supposedly a Christian (0+ / 0-)

      organization (so they say, just as the men you cite claim to be Muslim)? Not only did members of the KKK harrass and lynch numerous people throughout the past 150 years, but they killed 4 young girls at a church in Birmingham in 1963. Remember that? How do you explain that, kickass?

      A slight acquaintance with history will produce many examples of "Christians" killing others in the name of their religion.  The evil done in the name of Christianity does not negate the basic message of the religion any more than evil done in the name of Islam negates the basic message of Islam. As Jesus said, not all who call me Lord, Lord will enter the Kingdom. Neither will all who call Mohammed Prophet. Fundamentalists of any religion tend to be violent with those who disagree with them.

      It's what you do, not what you believe that counts - thenekkidtruth

      by sewaneepat on Tue Feb 22, 2011 at 03:44:29 AM PST

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    •  The same way I explain grotesque violence (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ord avg guy, Calamity Jean

      of this kind

      In an extensive statement before his sentencing, Rudolph said the bombings were part of a guerrilla campaign against abortion, "the homosexual agenda" and the U.S. government.
      Not surprisingly, his killer is strongly suspected to be affiliated with the "pro-life" movement. If that's the case, it makes Tiller the 10th person in the United States to be murdered by anti-choice terrorists.
      Unlike the generally secular white supremacist organizations, Hutaree are explicitly Christians. Many seem to be millenarians, expecting the end of time to come soon. Like the so-called Patriot Movement, they are gun nuts. They are said to be organized to kill the Antichrist, and some reports say that they planned violence against American Muslims.

      You are teetering dangerously close to generalizations that cannot be substantiated by non-partisan data, which falls into the realm of bigotry and propaganda.

      No other religion comes anywhere close to this level of relentless and gross religious violence

      That's an extraordinary claim, you need to provide extraordinary evidence, not cherry picked news articles.

      That claim, without evidence, is just general bigotry and propaganda and is hide ratable and even cause for banning.

      "What's disgusting? Union busting!" 17.02.2011 Madison, WI

      by Jeffersonian Democrat on Tue Feb 22, 2011 at 06:27:30 AM PST

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