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View Diary: The Tipping Point: Ten Wake-up calls for Americans from Coffee Party USA (222 comments)

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  •  great diary - but the name is reactive (0+ / 0-)

    maybe reaction is what gets people going, I don't know.

    An ambulance can only go so fast - Neil Young

    by mightymouse on Sat Feb 26, 2011 at 04:18:19 AM PST

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    •  I've always liked the Coffee Party name (23+ / 0-)

      The Boston Tea Party may have been a critical moment in the American Revolution, but the effect of the tea boycott the Tea Party enforced was to turn our country into a nation of coffee drinkers.

      I'm an American, dammit.  I drink coffee in the morning, afternoon, and night.

      Tea is for Brits.  Redcoats.  Turncoats.  Traitors.

      We fought the Revolution to free ourselves from the East India Company monopoly on tea.  And those damn reactionary teabaggers want to turn back the clock.

      I think I'll go serve myself my second cup of java this morning.  It's the patriotic thing to do...

      Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free
      ¡Boycott Arizona!

      by litho on Sat Feb 26, 2011 at 04:34:46 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  I think it goes beyond that (5+ / 0-)

      i don't understand the need to create a new organization to represent principles already espoused by other, existing organizations.  Let's face it, there is nothing even remotely conservative or Republican about the Coffee Party's ideals.

      It seems to me that we'd be better off working to drag the Democratic party to a better place rather than trying to do it with a fledgling group with no existing structure or power.

      This isn't to cast aspersions on the Coffee Party. I just don't see it as having a real shot at changing the national dialog and that's a shame because the ideals are spot on and the dialog NEEDS to be changed. I have yet to see a convincing argument that the Coffee Party has something new to offer that couldn't be offered by an existing organization that is already well established or by the Democratic Party itself that has real power to elect candidates.

      My mind is open, however.

      To be clear, it's "EClectablog", not "Electablog".

      by Eclectablog on Sat Feb 26, 2011 at 06:04:25 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  one could do both (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Badabing, elwior, Dirtandiron, Just Bob

        An ambulance can only go so fast - Neil Young

        by mightymouse on Sat Feb 26, 2011 at 06:12:42 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  That's inefficient and... (3+ / 0-)

          ...wastes precious time, money and resources. We can't afford that when we're facing such well-finder corporate opposition. That is, in fact, exactly what they want: us divided and scattered.

          To be clear, it's "EClectablog", not "Electablog".

          by Eclectablog on Sat Feb 26, 2011 at 06:20:56 AM PST

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          •  while dragging the D party to a better place (6+ / 0-)

            you need some basis that is more reliable to hang out.

            reforming the D party is a soul sapping & disorienting exercise that leaves one feeling as if he or she wandered into a hall of mirrors.

            as long as the organization works with the party to help get votes and advance a message that is a good thing.

            An ambulance can only go so fast - Neil Young

            by mightymouse on Sat Feb 26, 2011 at 06:45:55 AM PST

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            •  I would argue that... (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Odysseus, mightymouse

              ...trying to change the national dialog outside of the system through an organization with pretty much no power to speak of can be every bit as soul-sapping and demoralizing as working to change existing organizations.

              I don't want to seem too combative here. I am with the Coffee Party philosophically and I want them to be successful. I have just spent too much wasted time with groups that set out to change the world only to see them peter out a short time later because they weren't successful right away and began to realize how difficult it is to obtain true political power in this country.

              I am, in some ways, playing the Devil's advocate and my mind is, in fact, open. Vince and I are friends, actually :)

              To be clear, it's "EClectablog", not "Electablog".

              by Eclectablog on Sat Feb 26, 2011 at 07:56:01 AM PST

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          •  I don't think this is inefficient, do you? (9+ / 0-)

            I think it's beautiful.

            http://pol.moveon.org/...

            To every millionaire who decries they don't want their grandchildren paying for the deficit, I say: PAY MORE TAXES NOW and your grandkids won't have a deficit burden.

            by gooderservice on Sat Feb 26, 2011 at 07:15:45 AM PST

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            •  I would argue that... (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Pangloss

              ...that graphic is the strongest possible case you could ever hope to make for why progressive liberals can't seem to make headway in this country. There isn't anything comparable on the right because they concentrate their efforts instead of being diffuse, scattered, and often at odds with each other like we are.

              You make my point for me brilliantly with your comment, in fact and, to answer your question: yes, without reservation I would say that is incredibly and even debilitatingly inefficient.

              To be clear, it's "EClectablog", not "Electablog".

              by Eclectablog on Sat Feb 26, 2011 at 07:50:06 AM PST

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              •  So you're saying we should follow (6+ / 0-)

                the wants and wishes of just one person or we get nothing?

                And to be clear, what one organization are you advocating that people all join?  The OFA/DNC?

                To every millionaire who decries they don't want their grandchildren paying for the deficit, I say: PAY MORE TAXES NOW and your grandkids won't have a deficit burden.

                by gooderservice on Sat Feb 26, 2011 at 08:35:54 AM PST

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              •  I agree with you about the diffuse nature (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Just Bob

                of our side, but how could we have it any other way?  Substituting our tactics for theirs would be anathema to what we're supposed to be standing for.

                The only way to make the diffuse and diverse coalition we've assembled to start working more positively is to drop the pie fights and purity tests.  Just in the comments on this post alone, there was an attempt to inject Obama into the center of the argument, with the predictable effects:  I momentarily forgot what I was reading about.

                "What about the headless bodies, Governor?" --- Members of the press yelling after a fleeing Jan Brewer, 9/1/2010

                by Pangloss on Sat Feb 26, 2011 at 08:49:43 AM PST

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                •  Of course I mean (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Just Bob

                  substituting our tactics WITH theirs.

                  "What about the headless bodies, Governor?" --- Members of the press yelling after a fleeing Jan Brewer, 9/1/2010

                  by Pangloss on Sat Feb 26, 2011 at 08:51:03 AM PST

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                •  I would suggest a good start... (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Odysseus, Pangloss

                  ...would be to quit forming new groups and begin to work toward consolidating the ones we have.

                  As I have already mentioned, I favor having POWER.  Real power where you can accomplish your goals based on your values and principles. I believe the best way to do that is to either help guide existing organizations with real power (I.e., the Democratic Party) or to, at the very least, form solid, lasting coalitions with these groups.

                  To be clear, it's "EClectablog", not "Electablog".

                  by Eclectablog on Sat Feb 26, 2011 at 08:58:56 AM PST

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                  •  You have a point, but when you (0+ / 0-)

                    suggest, i.e., the Democratic Party, the current leadership does not do this when it comes to my family and me.  

                    accomplish your goals based on your values and principles.

                    So I will keep pushing them and pushing, and the best way I can do it is to belong to organizations who try to accomplish my goals based of my values and principles.

                    To every millionaire who decries they don't want their grandchildren paying for the deficit, I say: PAY MORE TAXES NOW and your grandkids won't have a deficit burden.

                    by gooderservice on Sat Feb 26, 2011 at 01:30:17 PM PST

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            •  Whoot! (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              gooderservice

              n/t

              Others have simply gotten old. I prefer to think I've been tempered by time.

              by Just Bob on Sat Feb 26, 2011 at 08:03:11 AM PST

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      •  You've missed an important point (9+ / 0-)

        The Coffee Party is nonpartisan and concentrates on right and wrong rather than right and left.

        Others have simply gotten old. I prefer to think I've been tempered by time.

        by Just Bob on Sat Feb 26, 2011 at 06:55:42 AM PST

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      •  The Democratic Party (7+ / 0-)

        has already been corrupted beyond repair. Of course they aren't as openly hostile to Americans, but they will never, as a party, be a vehicle for the substantial changes we need.

        It's time to face that fact.

        How any new emerging party can compete with the boatloads of cash showered on our two captive political parties is the real problem.

        ... just floating by ...

        by cumulo on Sat Feb 26, 2011 at 07:00:10 AM PST

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      •  This isn't about a political party or (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Dirtandiron, Just Bob, Lh1695

        politician -- it's about us, The People.  

        From the CoffeePartyUSA website:

        During this historic time when the world has been inspired and transformed by "people power" flexing its muscles from Lybia to Wisconsin, we are particularly proud of the fact that the Coffee Party has no corporate funding, no hyper-partisan billionaire funding, and no affiliations with any political candidate or any political party.

        I can understand that you might want more people to join the OFA with you, but that won't accomplish anything near what we need to do.

        I have yet to see a convincing argument that the Coffee Party has something new to offer that couldn't be offered by an existing organization that is already well established or by the Democratic Party itself that has real power to elect candidates.

        To every millionaire who decries they don't want their grandchildren paying for the deficit, I say: PAY MORE TAXES NOW and your grandkids won't have a deficit burden.

        by gooderservice on Sat Feb 26, 2011 at 07:02:03 AM PST

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        •  OFA? (6+ / 0-)

          I wasn't even thinking about OFA. OFA is about grassroots action based on the existing goals of the party, not changing the direction of the party. This is more fundamental than that.

          I'm talking about progressives becoming members of their county party, taking on leadership roles, and providing new direction. This needs to percolate up through state party structure all the way to the national level.

          This is what I am doing. I am now Vice-chair for Precinct Organizing for our County Party and on the Executive Board.

          This approach takes stamina and determination and a clear focus but, then again, so does what the Coffee Party is proposing or ANY kind of fundamental change like this. This may be a "tipping point" but it is decidedly NOT going to happen quickly.

          To be clear, it's "EClectablog", not "Electablog".

          by Eclectablog on Sat Feb 26, 2011 at 07:41:36 AM PST

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          •  LMFAO@ OFA = Grassroots (11+ / 0-)

            The shit you read on DailyKos.

            OFA is a top-down organization and always has been.  Members are free to follow orders or not, but they get no say in how their donations are used or what stance the Obama Fan Association will take publicly.

            Calling it "grassroots" serves only to destroy the meaning of that term.

            Will the revolution be easier if we HR each other a lot?

            by JesseCW on Sat Feb 26, 2011 at 07:55:11 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  The people making the calls... (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              SoCalSal, Forward is D not R

              ...knocking on the doors and forming the local networks are all doing it at the neighborhood, grassroots level. Having resources and direction come from the leadership of the Democratic Party doesn't take anything away from that. Sneer at and deride us all you want but having a solid network at the grassroots level working to elect Democrats and to help further the legislative agenda of the Democratic Party is an important obstacle standing between Democratic success and the complete domination from now until forever of the Republican party.

              Without the exception of a small handful of staff folks in each state and a few national staffers, everyone working for OFA is a volunteer and is working on things at the local, usually neighborhood level.

              I'm sorry that you hate us so much. I would think there would be more appreciation, if not a bit of gratitude, for the many volunteers across the country giving their time and energy to try to hold back the progress of our political foes: the Republicans.

              To be clear, it's "EClectablog", not "Electablog".

              by Eclectablog on Sat Feb 26, 2011 at 08:18:04 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

            •  Interesting article on OFA (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              gooderservice, elwior

              http://thestar.blogs.com/...

              OFA scrambled to rally its troops, generating more than 300,000 calls to Congress on a single day. But the belated effort typified the group's first year. "It's always reactive and half-hearted," says [Markos] Moulitsas [founder of liberal website Daily Kos]. "The movement was built on the concept of big change — but they haven't gone after the things you need to do to enact change." Indeed, OFA's own numbers reveal a sharp drop-off in activist participation: All told, only 2.5 million of its 13 million followers took part in its health care campaign last year — and that's counting people who did nothing but sign the group's "statement of support."...

              Others have simply gotten old. I prefer to think I've been tempered by time.

              by Just Bob on Sat Feb 26, 2011 at 11:38:30 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Ah, the "health care campaign." (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Just Bob

                That was the one where OFA asked supporters to hand-deliver these little statements of support to Senators' local offices.

                The statements were really vague and didn't have any mention of public option, even though the Democratic leadership claimed at the time that it was trying like hell to get it into the final bill.

                It was pretty clear from that that the Obama administration didn't want public option in the bill.

                Do they wonder now where all the activists went? Duh.

      •  It's organizations like the Coffee Party (7+ / 0-)

        that are needed to reform the Democratic Party.  Individuals have no power against the party structure.  Only organized citizen groups can have the leverage to move the party.  And only organized citizen groups will have a chance to spread the truth against unlimited corporate propaganda.

        "I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel." Maya Angelou

        by ahumbleopinion on Sat Feb 26, 2011 at 07:15:01 AM PST

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        •  That makes some sense (3+ / 0-)

          Although that is not one of the stated goals of the Coffee Party, is it?

          To be clear, it's "EClectablog", not "Electablog".

          by Eclectablog on Sat Feb 26, 2011 at 07:33:42 AM PST

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          •  I'll put this as gently as possible (5+ / 0-)

            You've undoubtedly heard about the demise of the DLC. Although that brought a smile to my face there was a bit of a grimace in that smile. We still have to contend with New Democrats and the Third Way. If there's any doubt in anybody's mind about that, I offer this article from Lanny Davis:
            http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...

            The Democratic Party differs from the Republican Party in the nature of judicial appointments and civil rights. Unfortunately they both have followed the same economic model for 30 years. When was the last time the FTC blocked a merger? It's that enabling of corporate America that has brought us to this point.

            I'm hoping that Wisconsin will awaken America and the Democratic Party.

            Others have simply gotten old. I prefer to think I've been tempered by time.

            by Just Bob on Sat Feb 26, 2011 at 07:55:02 AM PST

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            •  I find it interesting that you... (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              SoCalSal

              ...demonize the Third Way so strongly. Much of their approach reminds me of what the Coffee Party is attempting to do: find a more civil middle path.

              Did you know that Dean of the House, John Dingell, the man who has introduced a single-payer health care bill every session since he took office, is one of the Third Way's leaders?  So is Gabby Giffords.

              To be clear, it's "EClectablog", not "Electablog".

              by Eclectablog on Sat Feb 26, 2011 at 08:41:36 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

        •  Right... (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Just Bob, Eclectablog

          We need to do to the Democratic party what the teabaggers have done to the Republicans: become a force that can mobilize large numbers of primary voters.

          The primaries are where the action is.

          "A lie is not the other side of a story; it's just a lie."

          by happy camper on Sat Feb 26, 2011 at 07:39:20 AM PST

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        •  The Coffee Party (0+ / 0-)

          is not a organic citizens group it is an offshoot of OFA. by-partisan my ass.  Civility with who? About what? Toothless organizations that tout civility when we the people are by-partisanly getting screwed is not only pointless it does not do a damn thing but further the status quo. I belong to the ALCU, WFA and Working America, these are by-partisan groups. There are plenty of groups that try to leverage the party and this isn't one of them. this is a pacifier so is OFA.  Funny thing about astro turf it never looks or smells like the real thing. I bet your coffee is just weak tea for Obama.

          •  The origin of the Coffee Party (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            ahumbleopinion

            was a rant on a personal Facebook page. As to bipartisan, no, the Coffee Party is nonpartisan.

            http://www.youtube.com/...

            There's a very good (an long) story about this documentary:
            http://www.9500liberty.com/

            The documentary foretold SB 1070 in Arizona and other such laws sweeping the country. Dig into it. You'll learn much.

            Others have simply gotten old. I prefer to think I've been tempered by time.

            by Just Bob on Sat Feb 26, 2011 at 09:36:53 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  I did dig into it (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              zedaker

              back when it was being touted as the lefts counter to the uncivil tea party. It smells and not of coffee or  grassroots, the founder creeps me out and her version of civility is just another word for centrist OFA by-partisan mind killer. As Obama said of Aristides return to Haiti 'an unfortunate distraction'. Why if the right is so scary that we must spend our days fighting it would you want to sit around and be civil about the dismantling of our country? wake up and smell the coffee the real stuff not this sorry substitute. Civility my ass.  

            •  wow! that sounds so damn much like (0+ / 0-)

              when the wingnutter told me that Obama was a leftwing fascist and that i should look into it by watching Beck and learning something that i am almost speechless.

              almost.

              blink-- pale cold

              by zedaker on Sat Feb 26, 2011 at 10:49:50 AM PST

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              •  I'm certain others could do a better job. (0+ / 0-)

                I did what I can do. I have no misconceptions about the Coffee Party and I do have some reservations, but your characterization is far off the mark.

                Others have simply gotten old. I prefer to think I've been tempered by time.

                by Just Bob on Sat Feb 26, 2011 at 11:13:33 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

      •  A new spirit is necessary. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        elwior, Just Bob

        Ordinary political process is dead. The Supreme Court killed it. In Chambers. With a gavel.

        by Publius2008 on Sat Feb 26, 2011 at 08:20:04 AM PST

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      •  I think the opposite is true. (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        aliasalias, elwior, Just Bob

        The Democratic party won't budge until it is pressured to do so by outside groups. Presently, the outside groups are largely corporate lobbyists, business roundtables, DLC-esque think tanks and consultants...

        ... which is why the current progressive strategy of electing "more and better Democrats" invariably gives way to "more cravenly plutocratic Blue Dogs."

        The Democrats won't do a thing until they realize that there is a body of progressive voters whose votes they simply won't earn until they start responding to their demands.

        Nothing requires a greater effort of thought than arguments to justify the rule of non-thought. -- Milan Kundera

        by Dale on Sat Feb 26, 2011 at 11:31:18 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

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