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  •  Might I point out (0+ / 0-)

    that critics of teachers and union only say the data has confounding variables when it does not support the arguments they want to make.

    In fact, while correlation is hardly causation, the overall thrust of the data is, if you insist on using test scores as the measure, that unionized states do far better on national scores than do non-unionized states.   That has been true consistently.

    "what the best and wisest parent wants for his child is what we should want for all the children of the community" - John Dewey

    by teacherken on Sun Feb 27, 2011 at 01:10:14 PM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  Cherry picking data and selective argumentation (0+ / 0-)

      are fairly common tactics by some people on all sides.

      Right wing Republicans tend to do this more than most.   On the other hand, there are plenty of critics of teachers and unions who are not right-wing Republicans.

      In case it was not clear I acknowledge the overall thrust of the data.  As you know, however, this data correlates well with some other variables and it is reasonably likely that both unionization and positive educational outcomes are both caused by these other variables.  

    •  A couple of points (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Justanothernyer

      Ken,

      You are correct to point to the hypocrisy and double standard.

      What I think the data show is that Unionization does not negatively impact teacher quality or student outcomes-though you are correct that test scores is not a great measure.

      My off the cuff explanation for the higher level of test scores in Unionized states is socio-economic status and overall cultural environment. Most of the non-union states do not have a good history of valuing education.

      Here again, there is a simply study that could be done: compare counties/districts that are comparable in socio-economic and ethnic variables in Unionized vs. non-Unionized areas (say inner city New York to inner City Atlanta or inner city Richmond).

      I have to say that I am rather surprised that the research departments of the AFT and NEA , or their state affiliates have not done this study. Or maybe they have.

      In which case, they should publicize it.

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