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View Diary: NBC/WSJ: People overwhelmingly side with the unions; say leave Medicare, Social Security alone (83 comments)

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  •  I guess you are going to have to explain (1+ / 0-)
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    jethrock

    to me how I am being selective when I said the public option was a rout....and then provided two examples of the public option being a rout....

    Yes..dropping the word choice or option would do that...I don't know how that proves anything.

    You could have said, my mistake, but oh well...

    Sure the Democrats don't do everything right, but on this issue, they are on the right side of the public and that needs to be acknowledged.

    Democrats know they will lose their jobs if unions stop collecting dues.  That doesn't take courage to support, and just being on the right side seems awfully lacking to me.

    What would take courage is actually standing up for the workers...not their dues.  

    Why is it so hard to say "we are against shared sacrifice if it isn't shared"?

    I am not fooled.  This is self preservation.  The johnny come lately support for unions, after attacking teachers unions, freezing pay, dropping EFCA, will not be applauded by me.

    Actions, not words.

    "Senator McCain offered up the oldest Washington stunt in the book - you pass the buck to a commission to study the problem." - Senator Obama, 9-16-2008

    by justmy2 on Wed Mar 02, 2011 at 06:28:33 PM PST

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    •  hey, whatever (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mdmslle

      Both my parents were union organizers. I lived this stuff. Complaints that "you aren't xxxx enough for me" fall on deaf ears.

      But data analysis that is skewed beyond what the data shows needs to be challenged.

      Here are the (as far as I know) last four polls done on public option. One out of 4 (CBS/NYT) is a rout, the others not so much.

      I think CBS/NYT was an outlier. I think "barely holding its own" is the correct interp. And I think current polling would not agree with CBS/NYT.

      "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

      by Greg Dworkin on Wed Mar 02, 2011 at 06:52:36 PM PST

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      •  So you are going to pull polls (0+ / 0-)

        from after the entire debate had ended, and the President and Senate had already dropped the entire issue...(and don't tell me it was possible to add it in conference, you and I know better.  They were just praying to pass anything that point).

        I can't help but laugh.  Do you really think we as commenters are that dense?  

        smh

        If you are going to spend an hour trying to prove me wrong, at least find polls in the time frame where the issue was being debated.  I know it was hard work.

        You could still just admit that you made a mistake and call it a day.

        And I didn't question your credentials in the above comment.  I have no idea, nor do I care what your parents did for a living.  I haven't mentioned my occupation, my parents, or my next door neighbors.  Who cares?  What is at issue is what you are doing right now, with an extremely loud voice.  

        I simply ask, instead of attacking me and fishing for polls (which you could not do without pulling late polls and even then declaring some as outliers), why not spend some time making the case for unions.  Making the case for EFCA.  Making the case for middle class workers and why cutting their pay/benefits package is not only counter-productive, but immoral.

        You have the choice with your stories.  The choices you make, and the framing you use, speak about you and your values. Not your parents.  And you parents voice or beliefs don't speak for you.

        Save the logical fallacies and debate tricks for others.  I respect you and your views.  But I become disappointed when you decide to attack a comment, without basis, and then simply can't find it in yourself to say "I was wrong".  You are better than that.

        "Senator McCain offered up the oldest Washington stunt in the book - you pass the buck to a commission to study the problem." - Senator Obama, 9-16-2008

        by justmy2 on Wed Mar 02, 2011 at 08:29:47 PM PST

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        •  to clarify...immoral when the sacrifice (0+ / 0-)

          is not shared...

          "Senator McCain offered up the oldest Washington stunt in the book - you pass the buck to a commission to study the problem." - Senator Obama, 9-16-2008

          by justmy2 on Wed Mar 02, 2011 at 08:30:28 PM PST

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