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View Diary: Sen. Sanders proposes 5.4% surtax on millionaires. More like this guy, please! (227 comments)

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  •  So, since Sanders approach... (6+ / 0-)

    ...has no chance, he shouldn't even propose it because it does too little and, of course, nothing better will pass so it's back to axing programs for the poor and middle class. Supporting those things won't get the President impeached, so we—and Sanders—should just be "pragmatic" about it, eh? Ye gods.

    Don't tell me what you believe. Tell me what you do and I'll tell you what you believe.

    by Meteor Blades on Fri Mar 11, 2011 at 08:01:00 AM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  Meteor Blades, if that is what you read out (0+ / 0-)

      of my comment, you are projecting. For your information, I do have a lot of respect for Sen. Sanders as I have said it here. No one is saying he should not proposed it. My beef is in the amount of the proposal.  It is chum change if the intent is to cut our deficits as the title of the act says it all - Emergency Deficit Reduction Act. Are you kidding me?  The proposal won't make a dent to the deficit and is not an Emergency.  If you are going to make such a proposal you might as well make it to have an earth shattering impact. As an independent from Vermont, he has an ability to say and do just about anything that is far left without political consequence whether what he proposes passes or not. However, the same support Sanders enjoys is not available to other Democratic lawmakers in other States while some of them are indeed feckless nonetheless with their priorities.  I believe it is a mistake to put other Democrats in a pedestal since they don't enjoy the kind of support Vermont gives Sen. Sanders. In the end, I am not so convinced such comparison is helpful.

      ...We have many more issues that bind us together than separate us!

      by ThisIsMyTime on Fri Mar 11, 2011 at 10:08:07 AM PST

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      •  And then here is my question to you (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ThisIsMyTime

        and it's an important one. Because there's no doubt that what Bernie is proposing is "right, good, virtuous, and just."

        What do we do to push the electorate itself in a direction where it will elect more lawmakers like Senator Sanders?

        I think this comes down to things like combating media spin about proposals, as well as educating the electorate, who tend toward being ill-informed, and also, trying to push for increased voter participation from non-traditional groups who hold more Progressive ideals. There are probably a million other things that I'm not thinking of.

        "There are always two parties; the establishment and the movement." - Emerson

        by mahakali overdrive on Fri Mar 11, 2011 at 12:02:55 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Sorry, I meant to get back to your question and (0+ / 0-)

          got side tracked:

          What do we do to push the electorate itself in a direction where it will elect more lawmakers like Senator Sanders?

          1) Just as it has been displayed here in this diary where we try to give a hooray to Sen. Sanders even knowing that his proposal won't make it thru the House and even the Senate, we need to praise the efforts of other Democrats like the Presidents' effort for example on his 2012 budget proposal to expire the Bush tax cut even if it is more likely that proposal is not going to make it out of congress. Calling the POTUS a bluff when we call Sanders a hero for the same end result is not helpful and in fact a double standard and may be a typical example of a privilege Sanders enjoys.

          2) We need to highlight our achievements more so than continue the vicious criticism of the Administration's effort because messaging is important to low information voters and the more they are informed of what we have done to date, it helps build confidence that Democrats are doing a good job with all their political limitations.

          3) When criticizing, if people's criticism is not going to change a decision (two year tax extension, Afghanistan plan) that has been made, Democrats must understand that it doesn't serve us to go viral to undermine the Administration's effort making it a talking point all year long lashing out at the President at every arguments when we have the positive to re-enforce because there is many things we can cover.

          4) We must realize that there is no perfect solution and understand that being progressive means making progress and we have many to show for.

          These things will increase morale and get people to be excited about working hard at the grassroots level to work harder to register voters, GOTV, to increase the number of Democratic lawmakers locally, Statewide and Nationally. However, we need to have a system that embraces candidate ideologies that align with Democratic principle (Sanders type) than just having the money when candidates enter races so that we have the best candidate representing the people.

          I can go on and on with this you know MO, but I will leave it at that for now my sistah. Have a good Saturday.

          ...We have many more issues that bind us together than separate us!

          by ThisIsMyTime on Sat Mar 12, 2011 at 07:07:32 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  Like many folks have argued for President... (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        megisi, ThisIsMyTime, Vtdblue

        ...Obama, Sanders is offering a perfectly reasonable proposal that makes sense to three-fourths of the population. What he's showing by this, I'll wager, is that even among Democrats, there is really no stomach for such reasonableness. If he had tried to propose what I discussed -- transforming globalization, fixing the tax system, etc. -- he would be blasted for unreasonableness as we democratic (small "d") socialists always are.  At this stage, I prefer that reasonable, but pointed, proposals like this one get some attention so average Americans can say, "Hmmmm, that sounds like a good idea," rather than having them agreeing with the Foxagandists' howl of that's-the-kind-of-thing-Hitler/Stalin/Mao would have proposed.

        Don't tell me what you believe. Tell me what you do and I'll tell you what you believe.

        by Meteor Blades on Fri Mar 11, 2011 at 02:08:15 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  What Sanders is offering is great. So is what (0+ / 0-)

          a lot of the President is proposing in his budget. However, often times I see the double standard on what Sanders proposes verse what the President proposes or shall I say a huge hooray for Sandars while a smack down on what the President proposes regardless of how perfectly reasonable it is. A good example is the President's proposal to expire Bush's tax extension.  We know it probably won't happen. We also know Sander's proposal won't see the day of light. But, the reaction shown here makes it as if Sanders is the hero while the President is a villain which I think is a double standard.  

          I have no doubt this world would be a better place if you have lawmakers like Sanders occupying the Hill but in the end the POTUS should not be undermine for trying to do exactly some of the things you have noted above like transforming globalization like in the cases with India, Korea and even China; and also prioritizing the agenda to fixing the tax system with all the political limitation.

          I am not disagreeing with the jest of what you wrote. Our system is bogged down to make a dent to what should really be a "shared scarifies" of all Americans regardless of one or two peoples' good intention.

          ...We have many more issues that bind us together than separate us!

          by ThisIsMyTime on Sat Mar 12, 2011 at 07:50:52 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  No, you two are actually in agreement (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ThisIsMyTime

      You both want precisely the same thing. I'm pretty sure of it. I'm sure that TiMT supports Sanders' proposals from reading his comments. I think he's expressing skepticism that they'll pass. You also expressed skepticism that they'll pass in your diary. You also both agree that the problem is systemic. As do I. All he added was that the President is hamstrung because of that system. And he is. That system, of course, is Capitalism itself. There is no question that we live in a highly dysfunctional Oligarchy or Plutocracy, at least in my mind. I think we're all on the DK to figure out, essentially, how to get out of this and arrive at a more equitable, more just society.

      I haven't seen anyone saying that Sanders shouldn't make his proposals (people may have said this, but I've not seen it if they have, although I've mainly been in this diary today). It strikes me that everyone agrees that they should push for it with their Congress? There is no harm in it. It is of course righteous, in fact. My sense is that some people don't feel that advancement comes from anger at the Government -- even if they are frustrated -- whereas other people feel it does.

      In short, it seems like everyone would like more like Bernie Sanders in Government. There aren't really two sides here that I'm aware of. I think most Pragmatic-oriented Democrats would support Sanders, because his solutions are the very embodiment of Pragmatic ideals (using the older term for Pragmatics, in terms of how Marx might have used it, for example, rather than in the newer terminology, because I can't quite wrap my head around how that's used recently at all, other than to mean "incremental" which doesn't seem applicable here).

      Just my two.

      "There are always two parties; the establishment and the movement." - Emerson

      by mahakali overdrive on Fri Mar 11, 2011 at 11:59:31 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

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