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View Diary: Sen. Sanders proposes 5.4% surtax on millionaires. More like this guy, please! (227 comments)

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  •  Ok...if you understand and that it is a done deal, (2+ / 0-)
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    wader, rebel ga

    and you have pointed it out millions of times that it is a terrible decision again and again, what can you change by complaining about it at every opportunity there is to stick it? What will that achieve except to continue the "let's highlight what we think is horrible decision of Obama" crusade, which really ain't going to add a dime to making progress. The decision has been made. You may not agree with it but in the end it is done and a large number of people are benefiting off of it. I wish you would say something like...

    ...while I disagree with the decision to extending Bush's tax cut for two years, I also acknowledge the circumstance and some of the good stuff in the agreement that will benefit many working class Americans.

    ...We have many more issues that bind us together than separate us!

    by ThisIsMyTime on Fri Mar 11, 2011 at 08:08:18 AM PST

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    •  We aren't all going to join in on spinning. (8+ / 0-)

      There are more important things to focus on right now like changing the policy.  Sander's proposal is an extremely positive step in the right direction.  Maybe you should join in respectfully requesting that the President and the Democratic Leadership support his proposal.  Maybe if they do that and actually succeed (chances are low - but hey the GOP should never have had the power they did in the last term) people would move on and even give them tons of credit for solving the problem.

      The Deal was bad policy.  The Democrats agreed to defunding their own government.  That's a bad policy for them and for the American people - especially in a very weak economy.  Change the policy and we'll spin more positively that you could ever imagine.

      •  That is not spinning. Your disagreement is noted. (2+ / 0-)
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        mahakali overdrive, rebel ga

        However, if we want to be responsible in shaping the message, my god, we better highlight the good things we are doing to show so that people are aware of the information. I don't think it is a spin to point out your disagreement but also highlight the positives. If you really think of it as a spin, then so be it. Spin to win the hearts and minds of voters to add more and better democrats. Is it not what we are suppose to do? However, being stuck in the past and spinning the negative over and over and over again ain't sure going to help come election time. The choice is of course yours.

        ...and for your information, you can also spin the proposal in the 2012 budget on taxes which will roll the tax rates back to Clinton era level if approved and that is a big if. Check it out.

        ...We have many more issues that bind us together than separate us!

        by ThisIsMyTime on Fri Mar 11, 2011 at 08:39:01 AM PST

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        •  It is spin and it also distracts from the (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          neroden, schnecke21, COBALT1928

          core policy deficits of The Deal.

          Yes unemployment was extended, but not for long and it looks like there's not going to be much money to fund the next round as a result of the deficit created by the tax cuts.  The Republicans said that they would cut social programs and attack the safety net because of the lack of revenue at the time.  People didn't take them at the word, but I sure did.

          Now here we all are and we haven't even gotten through a whole quarter since the deal was done and what's happening?  A full scale attack on social programs is happening - that's what.  Even the White House can't avoid it and that's the result of a phenomenally short-sighted approach to governing that had everything to do with politics and little to do with the real impact of the policies.

          Helping people for a few months and then letting them simply fall off of the cliff is not something to cheer about.  Sorry.

          •  I believe the 2010 election results, (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            mahakali overdrive, ThisIsMyTime

            with the republicans getting the majority vote is largely due to the fact that the msm, negatively spins everything concerning Democrats and convinced American's that their vote wasn't important!

            It also caused them to believe that staying home and not voting was a good option.
            msm, can turn anyone's brain to jello, avoid it!

            When will American's learn that Every Vote Counts! And not to allow talking heads in the msm, to demoralize them to the point apathy sets in!

            It is up to Us, The American People, to create public policy!
            We should not be depending on the White House to do it for

            The revolutionary war was not won by the President. Or by Americans who sat at home and just complained.
            It was won by Americans who knew how to fight back, and did!

            note to republicans;
            No Taxation Without Representation!

            Pres. Obama did say, WE Were Going To Bring Change To America! He cannot do it alone. It is unrealistic to keep blaming him.

            Brought To You By That Crazed Sociologist/Media Fanatic rebel ga Be The Change You Want To See In The World! Ghandi

            by rebel ga on Fri Mar 11, 2011 at 09:54:55 AM PST

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            •  George Washington had quite a lot (1+ / 0-)
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              to do with winning the Revolutionary War.

              We can't change policy.  This isn't a grass roots democracy.  This is a representative democracy and as such we rely on our representatives to both follow the will of the people and to make tough unpopular decisions from time to time.

              I don't buy into the notion that the media is entirely at fault either - not at all.  If that were the case then Obama would never have been the darling that he was for a couple of years.  It was when his policies started to be clearer that the media stopped fawning all over him.  The Republicans benefitted and capitalized on what looked to be a fairly dysfunctional Democratic Party who had all the power and yet still couldn't seem to get anything through Congress without drama.

              This thread is about Bernie Sander's proposal to hike taxes on people earning more than $1 million a year.  We have to rely on Bernie and the other political representatives in Washington to not only introduce those policies, but also to enact them.  One hopes that our Party Leadership will not run from him.  One hopes that they will rally round this initiative.  In any case, we have to rely on them to do the final work of making laws and setting policy.  That's just the way it works.

            •  inclusiveheart, but Washington didn't (0+ / 0-)

              become President until after the war!

              Also his men and the American People, (revolutionaries) did all the grunge work!

              I visited Valley Forge in grammar school and saw the log shacks, Washington's troops stayed in.

              I learned how they starved, froze, and had no coats, gloves and boots, leaving their bloody, frostbitten footprints in the snow! I think Washington had boots and food.

              He was the lucky one, probably a great general. But I wouldn't credit him all that much!

              It's always the everyday American, who does all the work!

              Yes and No to the rest of your comment.

              While nowadays we do have a representative govt. If  they do not provide for the best interests concerning the welfare of the people they propose to represent then they are not doing the job they were elected to do!

              Our American Presidents are usually subject to the whims of Congress. So blaming Pres Obama is unrealistic.

              I'm from Hudson County NJ, so I do not argue with you that Democratic inertia can sometimes be problematic. This goes for the Republican party too.

              Politicians in both parties, have an obligation to the American people to do the right thing! Their personal feelings or financial objectives are not supposed to be brought into play!

              A Democracy is a government; of the people, for the people and by the people!
              It should not be compromised by who can buy the election better!

              Pres. Obama did not win the election because the media fawned on him. I remember pretty much the opposite.

              He won for various reasons, besides the fact that the people in America were outraged by the previous administration's dysfunctional incompetence!

              Like the fact that those of us at the grassroots level understood that Pres Obama is a good man, who has our best interests in mind and is able to get the job done!
              Never has any other great President ever been able to do this, without the support and cooperation of the American people!

              Finally, aw come on, do you see any real news on Fox, and other news channels, besides msnbc?

              I was watching the msm, before the 2010 elections and was numb, from what I was seeing and hearing.

              Now I understand what yada, yada, yada means!

              Brought To You By That Crazed Sociologist/Media Fanatic rebel ga Be The Change You Want To See In The World! Ghandi

              by rebel ga on Fri Mar 11, 2011 at 03:19:48 PM PST

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        •  TiMT, my feeling is there is definitely (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          room to both highlight the positive parts of the message -- a point which I could not advocate more fervently for -- and then also trying to push for good proposals, like Senator Sanders' to be adopted. They're not in conflict at all, at least not as the diary presented these ideas. I think the diary used an extremely fine tone to convey an ideal without denigrating the reality, which is that we must elect Democrats to bulwark ourselves against yet less chance of passing these types of measures.

          My general sense is that people don't always think in shades of nuance. These are sound, sane proposals, for example. There is no reason why we ought not push for them, or worse, ensure our own defeat through crappy messaging that serves the GOP better than the implementation of reasonable policies (progressive tax reform would be my number one, but the likelihood of it passing in a Capitalist nation is pretty close to zero, due to the fault of NO party, but rather the structural makeup of our economy and Government).

          Just my perspective here :)

          Of course, I'm a blood-red Leftist (sic) AND an altruist at core. So maybe the problem is simply often one of tone, division, and so forth.

          "There are always two parties; the establishment and the movement." - Emerson

          by mahakali overdrive on Fri Mar 11, 2011 at 10:25:53 AM PST

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          •  I am in agreement in Principle MO. No doubt about (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            mahakali overdrive

            that. However, sometimes the comparison made between Sen. Sanders and other democrats about why they are not like him is not a helpful comparison. I think if Sen. Sanders comes out and say we should tax the rich applying a surcharge of 30% to raise a trillion dollar to cut the deficits, he will be loved by most if not all progressives. A Democratic Senator in a red State however is not afforded the same leisure Sen Sanders has to openly say that. While the Act is a noble gesture, I don't feel $60 billion is hard hitting to make the big problem we have go away let alone make a dent.

            But he is again another twist to all of this. When Sen. Sanders introduces a small bill that will not see a day light, progressives in this community go hooray even if they know it will not pass the house nor the Senate. When the President made a tax proposal to undue the tax extension in his 2012 budget, everyone was going "bullshit, that has got no chance of passing in congress". To be honest with you, both have no chance in congress but the double standard is very telling.

            Happy Friday (((MO)))

            ...We have many more issues that bind us together than separate us!

            by ThisIsMyTime on Fri Mar 11, 2011 at 11:16:00 AM PST

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      •  And they are about to do it again. (4+ / 0-)
        The Democrats agreed to defunding their own government.

        Wait for it:  The fight over raising the debt cap will almost surely result in defunding needed social programs.  The Dems will cave and Obama will not do a thing to stop it.  In fact, he may enable it.

        Like elections, decisions have consequences, and one of those consequences is setting precedents and moving that ol' Overton window.  We're about to reap the consequences of the decisions that led to "The Deal."  So yes, it's history but the past does affect the present.  

        The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. Bertrand Russell

        by accumbens on Fri Mar 11, 2011 at 08:47:55 AM PST

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    •  Reminding people of bad decisions is a very useful (4+ / 0-)

      thing to do.  Ideally, it would prevent the decision makers from making the same bad decision again.  Practically, it highlights how badly the deciders make decisions and don't listen to the people when they go ahead and make the same bad decisions again.  Hopefully, this would prevent people from voting for bad decision makers in the future.

      The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. Bertrand Russell

      by accumbens on Fri Mar 11, 2011 at 08:40:48 AM PST

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