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View Diary: Pull the Plug on HBGary Robo-Trolls: Subpoena Air Force General Schwartz. Free Bradley Manning. (45 comments)

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  •  Umm... (0+ / 0-)

    that still doesn't takeaway from the fact that he stole those government documents while on duty, which is federal offense.

    "Life is a banquet, and most poor suckers are starving to death!"-- Mame Dennis

    by lcj98 on Tue Mar 15, 2011 at 01:29:54 PM PDT

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    •  This is what I'm talking about (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      OHdog, CroneWit

      a perfect illustration for my diary.  Note:

      -- Deaf to difference between accused and convicted ("he stole" is a conclusion, not an allegation) continuous effort to conflate the two

      -- same talking points over and over

      -- strenuous effort to run down thread and "respond" to each damaging comment.  

      It's a pattern.  

      Shoo! bucket of bolts!

      •  Ralph... (0+ / 0-)

        He's in jail for a reason and that reason is he got caught doing something illegal while on duty.  None of that is made up.  That isn't anything else but fact.  Unless I'm comlpetely wrong on that, then point out to me where I'm wrong.  

        My main problem with your diaries on this subject is that you're turning Pvt. Manning into vicitim when his actions shows otherwise.  That's not me wanting to see him "hanged" or whatever overreaction you have.  The evidence points to him hacking into that database and stealing government property.  However, you putting up all this other stuff about blaming others but it still doesn't takeaway from the fact that he broke into and stole government property while on duty.  Now, if there is evidence that proves his innocence, then I truly hope its strong enough to get him off.  

        "Life is a banquet, and most poor suckers are starving to death!"-- Mame Dennis

        by lcj98 on Tue Mar 15, 2011 at 02:20:16 PM PDT

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        •  Double standard, revealing war crimes is not (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          wayoutinthestix, jim d

          "stealing."  

          Rumsfeld/Cheney/Bush stole $2.3 trillion from the Pentagon on the day before 911, announcing it could not be accounted for and of course it was never mentioned again after the next day.  If the CEO of your company just announced $2.3 trillion was gone, the FBI would be all over his offices the next morning and hauling out files in bankers boxes, and he would be up at the very least for violation of fiduciary responsibility.  Cheney's office revealed the identity of a covert agent against the Covert Agents Identity Protection Act and no one went to jail.  George Bush lied to congress about Saddam trying to get uranium from Niger, nothing happened, although lying to congress is a crime.

          Who gets prosecuted for "stealing?"  A private who was reporting war crimes.  You keep saying nothing changes the fact that he stole. Well, nothing changes these other facts either.  If your blinders are on so tight you can't see this is a political persecution, in which standards are applied in a grotesque mockery of justice, then you deserve the government you will get.  

          What Bradley Manning did was reveal the ugly face of war, which will help turn opinion against these wars.  It is especially important because since Vietnam the media is censored and sanitized, you don't see pictures of little girls on fire anymore which elicits a normal human reaction of horror and disgust and helps end the war no matter what the generals say.  Bradley Manning is a hero.  This government will never be forgiven for what it is doing to him.  The consequences are unclear, but for every injust action here is an equal and opposite reaction.

          Give Bradley Manning for the Nobel Peace Prize. Facebook group:

          http://www.facebook.com/...

          Rumsfeld: $2.3 trillion of taxpayer money just "gone"

          •  Pvt. Manning is no hero... (0+ / 0-)

            If he had such strong feelings about the war then he should've gotten out at the very first chance he got.  What the Bush Administration did has nothing to with what Pvt. Manning has been charged of doing.  To say otherwise is blaming Bush for Manning's actions and that just doesn't make a lick of sense.

            "Life is a banquet, and most poor suckers are starving to death!"-- Mame Dennis

            by lcj98 on Tue Mar 15, 2011 at 03:19:59 PM PDT

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            •  Who's blaming Bush? (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              RonV, jim d

              your reading comprehension is poor.  I said Bush Gang committed major crimes but not being prosecuted, double standard.   That does not equal "blaming Bush."

              On what do you base your assertion that Bradley is not a hero?  He is a true hero, for taking his duty to report war crimes seriously and showing the world that we are not all assholes.  Bradley Manning has made us all safer, by putting the BEST face of America forward.  

            •  Of course Bush was responsible. He was in charge (0+ / 0-)

              and he is supposed to know when his allies are torturing detractors and dissenters. Especially when US $ is paying the bills.

              When the documents are revealed just like in Chile etc there will be cables which reveal that high ranking people in the US KNEW.

              Maybe we will be lucky and Wickileaks has the documents already.

    •  He had access to the documents in the normal (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      CroneWit, jim d

      course of his work because Rumsfeld created a military version of the State Department to increase his power base.  All those memos should have been on more secure diplomatic servers rather than ones accessible to thousands of military personnel. The primary alleged crime (before they started creating other extraneous charges) was transmitting classified documents to people not authorized to receive them. Everything else is secondary and not pertinent.

      I don't dislike all conservatives... mainly just the ones that vote Republican.

      by OHdog on Tue Mar 15, 2011 at 02:01:38 PM PDT

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      •  That may be... (0+ / 0-)

        But that does give him permission to steal government property.

        "Life is a banquet, and most poor suckers are starving to death!"-- Mame Dennis

        by lcj98 on Tue Mar 15, 2011 at 02:24:24 PM PDT

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        •  See now (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          tim woods, OHdog, wayoutinthestix, RonV
          That may be... (0+ / 0-)

          But that does give him permission to steal government property.

          You're typing so fast, you just gave Manning permission to do what he did.  :)

          Slow down a bit. Consider perhaps not hijacking the comments with the talk of what Manning may or may not be guilty of. After all, the diarist is calling for investigation and humane treatment, not a free pass for Manning.

          I'm finding a lot of things funny lately. But I don't think they are. -- Ripley

          by tytalus on Tue Mar 15, 2011 at 02:36:24 PM PDT

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          •  DOH! (0+ / 0-)

            Thanks for the catch...

            I'm not trying to hijack the comments.  I just don't get how all of Ralph's dairies on this subject are about how Pvt. Manning is unquestioningly innocent and how the government is "railroading" (my word, not Ralph's) him.  This seems more like hero worship than anything else, however, has got me more interested in this topic than I was before, no matter what my opinions are.  I'm aware that my comments do come off as me condemning the PFC, which isn't the case.  I just don't think he should be praised as some type of hero when he didn't do anything heroic.

            "Life is a banquet, and most poor suckers are starving to death!"-- Mame Dennis

            by lcj98 on Tue Mar 15, 2011 at 03:09:01 PM PDT

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            •  Not just condemning Manning (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              wayoutinthestix, RonV, jim d

              but excusing what seems to be torture as well via fallacious argument. (see appeal to popularity above)

              I find fault with Ralph's 'Free Bradley Manning,' but he has commented to the effect of settling for humane treatment. Manning's hero status is debateable. The demand for humane treatment...ought not to be.

              I'm finding a lot of things funny lately. But I don't think they are. -- Ripley

              by tytalus on Tue Mar 15, 2011 at 04:04:03 PM PDT

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