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View Diary: They're Just Bad People (75 comments)

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  •  This is not snark. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Wendys Wink, Oh Mary Oh

    It is not hyperbole.  It IS the truth, period.  If you think history offers a more nuanced picture than I've offered, feel free.  Tell me that in a country of tens of millions, Germany, there were at least a million Germans actively resisting the Holocaust and hiding Jews?  No?  Tell me there were white Southern organizations to fight the KKK in the century between the end of the Civil War and the passage of the Civil Rights Act.  Find my counterexamples, because I seem to have lost them in the sands of time.

    The conundrum of stable democracy: Reform requires the consent of the corrupt.

    by Troubadour on Thu Mar 17, 2011 at 02:27:58 AM PDT

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    •  Alright, then I'll be blunt: (16+ / 0-)

      if I were a conservative trying to parody a leftwing blogger, I couldn't do better than this.  The checklist here is astounding: poorly-understood science being misapplied to a completely irrelevant sphere, even more poorly-understood history (Nazis, of course) being applied in the worst and most self-serving way, an army of straw men wrapped in an odious sanctimony and tied off with a ribbon of "complete lack of irony".  How's that for starters?

      No, you can't apply a bell curve to population-wide ethics, or to morality.  Not only do you have no standard of measurement (except, of course, the one that has you on the favorable slope), but no justification for the belief that the graph is even applicable.  Intelligence doesn't work the same as "good/bad".  

      No, even if you could somehow apply a bell curve, you couldn't possibly apply it the way that you've done here, finding (shocker!) that the people whose ideology you fundamentally dislike are on the opposite slope.  A bell curve of the kind you discuss measures disbursement within a population: it's not going to find, conveniently, that Southerners and Nazis are unlike you, for a whole host of reasons.

      No, you can't draw facile lessons from Nazi Germany and apply them to modern Republicans, based on some self-defined sense of which people are "good", and how people would react in a crisis.   It may be worth your while to acquaint yourself with actual rescue stories from within Nazi Germany* - the type of people who rescued Jews, the type who didn't - and you'll be sorely disappointed to find that there's no ideological consistency on either side of that.

      (* - an issue we've discussed a lot recently, in particular the way that American films about the Holocaust tend to center on the heroic rescuer (because we like to identify with the do-gooder, and it doesn't cross our minds that we'd ever be complicit in evil), while films made closer to the Holocaust and within areas heavily affected by it tended to focus on the way that ordinary people, even perfectly nice people, got swept up in mutual complicity.  Your diary is like the American film: all swagger, no history.)

      And through it all, this disgusting, dehumanizing language?  Is your irony meter just completely uncalibrated?  

      Let me tell you a story: in the aftermath of Katrina, there were stone-cold racist bigots out there risking their lives to rescue people.  These are your "human garbage."  They may be bad people, but they're better than you.

      Saint, n. A dead sinner revised and edited. - Ambrose Bierce

      by pico on Thu Mar 17, 2011 at 02:56:07 AM PDT

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      •  It was a good effort, but ultimately desperate (0+ / 0-)

        and doomed to fail as what it is - a last-ditch rationalization for believing what is simply not true.  You cannot seem to decide whether you do or do not believe in American exceptionalism - either we are not exceptional and our conservatives are animated by the same psychosis as their counterparts, or we are exceptional and nothing they say or do will ever merit comparison to Nazism in your estimation.  Which is it?

        The conundrum of stable democracy: Reform requires the consent of the corrupt.

        by Troubadour on Thu Mar 17, 2011 at 03:10:55 AM PDT

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        •  *facepalm* (8+ / 0-)

          I'm not arguing any kind of exceptionalism, American or otherwise.  You are.  That's the problem.

          My favorite line in the diary, for what it's worth:

          unlimited malice toward all human beings beyond their immediate personal sphere

          (ιατρε θεραπευσον σεαυτον)

          Saint, n. A dead sinner revised and edited. - Ambrose Bierce

          by pico on Thu Mar 17, 2011 at 03:37:50 AM PDT

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          •  Guess who said... (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Troubadour, pico

            "But whatsoever is the object of any man's appetite or desire, that is it which he for his part calleth good; and the object of his hate and aversion, evil; and of his contempt, vile and inconsiderable. For these words of good, evil, and contemptible are ever used with relation to the person that useth them: there being nothing simply and absolutely so; nor any common rule of good and evil to be taken from the nature of the objects themselves; but from the person of the man, where there is no Commonwealth; or, in a Commonwealth, from the person that representeth it; or from an arbitrator or judge, whom men disagreeing shall by consent set up and make his sentence the rule thereof. "

      •  tragically (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        kalmoth, Troubadour, Oh Mary Oh

         I have many of the same beliefs and conclusions as the diarist. I didn't come this way from reading about it or watching TV but gained it from actual people I know.

         Certainly there are multiple layers to engagement of active bigotry. Most I know stay on the outside - actively doing nothing. I use the word actively because silence while an injustice is taking place doesn't rank very high in my opinion. However, to know someone who carries many of the negative characteristics the diarist explains is to understand the rant.

         If one can actually experience a person(s) one has known for 25-30 years exhibit zero and I mean zero concern for people they don't know, believe and practice everyone needs a gun to go to the grocery store, that every brown or white person who lost their job doesn't deserve unemployment or food assistance and their damn kids included, that the EPA & FDA are a blight upon humanity (no kidding), the only good tax is for the DOD, that Obama is a socialist and they are livid about healthcare reform while moaning about the cost of RX and premiums, that hang on every broadcast of Hannity, disdains the 'lamestream media' yet have never watched a broadcast of MSNBC night pgming, doesn't change their mind-set when presented with new information and one during the healthcare debate actually said he 'didn't care if people die on the street' so - I get exactly where the rant is coming from. Did I mention they all live in AZ? So - I sort of think it's part of the current political climate there.

        Yet - I see now I can't shame anyone into seeing there is a right and wrong side. Again, while I see the characteristics in people I know I think I understand that everyone will need to suffer their own personal hell or crisis to change their ideology or practice. Personally, I think I'm correct to care and promote that a responsible government takes care of it's people and promotes legislation to grow the economy for everyone. Some of my friends don't. I'm not certain I am able to shower any love on those folks  but this diary helps me understand that shaming them is not the route.

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