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View Diary: Florida Republican blames 11-year-old for being raped (101 comments)

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  •  Great theory (0+ / 0-)

    but I don't see how it helps the victim in this case.

    Agreed that this is a source of the problem. I'm sure the Rep in this story, would agree too, for that matter, and would point to sex on TV, in pop music, and in movies as fueling this attitude. The fact that women at such danger in societies such as those inhabited by the Sheik in this story gives the lie to that theory, though.

    •  Not sure what sex on TV has to do with it (9+ / 0-)

      I'm talking about the conservative attitude that men are unable to control their sexual impulses, and are only able to function in society if it's stripped of all sexual stimuli.

      The belief that media representations of sex cause rape/sexual aggression is a product of this attitude; if we understood both men and women to be autonomous humans capable of social responsibility and empathy, we'd dismiss out-of-hand the idea that a woman's clothing, or a sexy rap video, or a sexual plot in a movie caused a rape to occur.

      But we don't. We teach kids of both sexes that men and boys are dangerous subhuman beasts. We put the onus of rape prevention on women and girls. And then when a rape occurs, we dissect the victim's life, her appearance, her behaviour. If we look at the boy, we don't really look at him - we look at his tastes in games and movies, his parents' relationship, his friends, his gang affiliations, anything but him and his attitudes and his decisions.

      This is wrong. It's not just morally wrong - it's a recipe for an unhealthy society.

      Does any of this help this particular victim? No...but neither does critiquing her reported style of dress after the fact. There's not much the media can do to help existing victims of rape. But going forward, we can start reducing the number of victims and making it easier for them to come forward by refusing to perpetuate a culture of victim-blaming and rapist-coddling.

      •  It's not my theory, but... (0+ / 0-)

        ...I think the train of thought is something like this:

        The more pervasive and casual sex is in the media and popular culture, the more "sexualized" people become, which includes men seeing women as sex objects to be acquired, as opposed to people to be respected. Ergo, men sexually assault women because that's what they're there for.

        On the contrary, though, I think real-world observation shows that, whatever other social consequences there may be, having a less sexually-repressed society appears to be associated with LESS of a tendency towards people thinking that sexual assault is "ok," precisely because people are less repressed and more knowledgeable about acceptable sexual relationships.

    •  I think it directly pertains (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Geoffrey Williamson, FarWestGirl

      The other side of this story -- and NO, I don't think an 11-year-old girl invited rape -- or if she did, it would be because she was absorbing the environment around her and didn't realize the consequences, which is still not her fault.

      The other side of this story is that many of the 18 were really boys themselves. And the boys too are victims -- they are victims of the same thing the girl is, a society that encourages them to think this behavior is ok, and that sexual activity is what makes a man out of them.

      I do think the clothing could be part of the problem, but that's because I think the clothing indicates an overly sexualized culture.  There is so much overly sexualized imagery in the youth culture -- music videos, pop icons, etc.  I think it sets boys up to view girls and woman primarily as objects for their sexual fulfillment.  I think we sets girls up to find their worth in their sexual attractiveness to an extreme degree.

      At 11 -- a girl is beginning the journey into womanhood, and it's natural to want to be sexually attractive.  What that equates to -- is really a caricature of womanhood.

      She's a victim and shouldn't be getting this treatment -- absolutely.  Did she unwittingly send messages -- absolutely.  The fault still lies with the boys who lacked self-control, and the society who permits them to run amok.

      The real answer is strong fatherhood that teaches boys to be good men (and please, to pull up their pants).

      •  Sorry, I made a few muddy statements here (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        The one I really want to fix -- "At 11 -- a girl is beginning the journey into womanhood, and it's natural to want to be sexually attractive.  What that equates to -- is really a caricature of womanhood."

        What I mean -- in today's environment -- what is happening is girls being sexualized in such a way that is a caricature of womanhood.

        •  "or if she did" ? (0+ / 0-)

          "Drop the name-calling." Meteor Blades 2/4/11

          by indycam on Thu Mar 17, 2011 at 03:56:48 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Can't. even. respond. (0+ / 0-)

            "lacked self control" was also a good one.


            •  I'm not back-walking that one... (0+ / 0-)

              you disagree that the RAPISTS lacked self-control?

              •  Yes, I do. (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:

                They made a choice to rape that girl. When you boil that choice down to "oh, they lacked self control", it's the same thing as saying "well, they were just overwhelmed by temptation".  As if morality has nothing to do with it.  As if right and wrong has nothing to do with their decisions.  As if "temptation", per se, even has very much to do with why people rape. Those men and boys could well have been in perfect control of themselves, and still decided to do the wrong thing.  For you to imply otherwise is dismissive of the horrific and wrong moral choice they made -- is dismissive of their being a moral choice there at all, as opposed to just "oh, they were overwhelmed.  Silly boys.  Someone should have taught them to control their libido better".

                They didnt' just fuck up because they lacked self control.  They fucked up because they decided to hurt a poor child.  They DECIDED.

          •  let me say that better too (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:

            "or if she did, it would be because she was absorbing the environment around her and didn't realize the consequences, which is still not her fault."

            I am NOT saying she invited rape.  I AM saying if she's dressing in a provocative manner, it's because she's living in an environment where she's come to believe that's a good thing for her to do.  She's been influenced by her environment, she gets esteem from attention.

            Which got the WRONG sort of attention, sadly. And it's NOT HER FAULT.  But -- perhaps it was an unintentional consequence of her clothing.  And it could be reality, which doesn't make it the right reality AT ALL, that her clothing did her no good that day.

            Should she be free to wear whatever? Yeah. Frankly I'd like to see "21-year-old prostitutes" lose the look too. But that's because the image it conjures is of a cheap and tawdry appearance, not because I think they are inviting rape.

            More better?
            (this is what I get for sneaking in a break at work to comment on a charged issue).

            •  You are still talking about clothing , (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              sethtriggs, splashy, kyril

              if she was on the beach in a tiny swim suit ?
              If she went to a top less beach ?
              If she went to a nude beach ?

              In Santa Cruz Ca . a person can walk around sans all clothing .
              A few years back a young woman was walking around bare .
              Would she be at all at fault if someone forced her into something against her will ?

              "Drop the name-calling." Meteor Blades 2/4/11

              by indycam on Thu Mar 17, 2011 at 06:05:45 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

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