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View Diary: Witnessing Revolution Liveblog #150 (318 comments)

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  •  Seems the President (5+ / 0-)

    is giving Gaddafi one more chance to behave.

    Stop advancing on your people.
    Restore power/water
    Allow humanitarian aid
    We will not go in on the ground

    I'd rather die than give you control ~ Trent Reznor

    by JustJennifer on Fri Mar 18, 2011 at 11:29:34 AM PDT

    •  Yeah, does the resolution ask for G to step down? (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      SallyCat, JustJennifer

      I mean he just gave in to letting G off the hook....as long as he stops advancing...

      So if he does ----is he "free"?????

      WTF????

      •  Who will replace him that's the problem (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Richard Lyon, JustJennifer

        According to German Press and some arab bloggers the guy leading the rebellion was one of Gadafi's goons and committed crimes of torture while serving for Gadafi.

        Republicans secret dream = the impeachment of Bo the Dog LOL

        by LaurenMonica on Fri Mar 18, 2011 at 11:53:27 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  They will need to have (0+ / 0-)

          open and fair elections.  That's the point of all this, right?   At least it is to me.

          I'd rather die than give you control ~ Trent Reznor

          by JustJennifer on Fri Mar 18, 2011 at 12:02:42 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  We are still trying to make that happen (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            poco, LaurenMonica

            in Iraq and Afghanistan.

            •  Yes we are (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Phil S 33, Gustogirl, petral

              However, this President came in on the tail end of a huge mission that had been underway for years.

              Do I think he could be doing more to change things?  Absolutely.  Am I disappointed that he hasn't? Absolutely.

              But I look at it like this.   Say you took a job managing a project that had been running for 10 years and your job was to finish it.  This project involved tens of thousands of people and a lot of financial resources.  How easy would it be to change the entire course of the project?  Not very.   But if you are hired to start your own project you have a lot more control over the direction.

              I'm willing to give the President a chance to get this right.  If he fucks it up I will be  the first one to complain, trust me.

              I'd rather die than give you control ~ Trent Reznor

              by JustJennifer on Fri Mar 18, 2011 at 12:15:26 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  That is what I worry about. (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          poco, JustJennifer, LaurenMonica

          Iraq and Afghanistan were supposed to turn into stable democracies just as soon as we got rid of the bad guys.

          •  I share your concern (0+ / 0-)

            Both Afghanistan and Iraq are huge cluster fucks.  

            However, the policies that led to that were laid out by a very different group of people.  Yes, I am aware of the fact that this administration has just continued down that path so why should we expect anything different?  I"m not sure we can.  However, I just can't see a way that we could have just ignored what Gaddafi is doing and waited for them to sort it out (like Egypt).  That clearly wasn't going to happen.

            I'd rather die than give you control ~ Trent Reznor

            by JustJennifer on Fri Mar 18, 2011 at 12:10:44 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  What bothers me is that (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              JustJennifer

              similar sorts of brutality goes on south of the Sahara quite regularly and we are entirely content to ignore that. If we as a nation do have a global moral and humanitarian responsibility, then highly selective recognition of that responsibility does not hold water.

               

              •  Well, yes of course that is true (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Gustogirl

                But are you saying we shouldn't act here because we don't act in other areas?

                I understand your concerns and criticisms, honestly I do.  I have always been very critical of our selective self interest in acting to help other nations.   However I just don't see how we could turn a blind eye to this situation.

                I'd rather die than give you control ~ Trent Reznor

                by JustJennifer on Fri Mar 18, 2011 at 12:26:50 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  I am saying that the argument (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  JustJennifer

                  that there is some sort of international humanitarian law doesn't hold up unless there is some consistency in applying that law. When it is selectively applied there is ample reason to suspect ulterior motives and the likelihood that that those motives will produce something other than a humanitarian outcome. Doing the "right" thing for the wrong reasons often leads to bad results.

              •  this area is strategically important (0+ / 0-)

                for Europe, at least. Setting aside the amount of oil Libya has, this is way too close for Europe to just ignore it.
                If you see it strictly from a realpolitik prism, Europe and the US absolutely misinterpreted the signs and were way too quick to ask Gaddafi to step down, because they thought it was a question of time until he was forced to.
                They got it seriously wrong.
                Now they have no choice but to act out of fear of having to deal with a far more aggressive Gaddafi than ever before and only about 400km from Europe.
                I'm sure Gaddafi's people will do their best to turn Libya into some kind Afghanistan. I only hope that some sort of good influence from their eastern and western neighbors will end up being reflected on the establishment of a democratic system in Libya as well.

                On a different note... why haven't there been any posts on Syria here? It seems things have become quite serious today especially in the south (see @MalathAumran and @Tharwacolamus, as well as @Arabist. apparently AJA has also reported it).

                •  I don't think they were too quick. (0+ / 0-)

                  Gaddafi has been a thorn in the world's side for decades.  I think the international community leaped at the opportunity.

                  Whether or not that was wise?  Too soon to tell.

                  Government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth - Abraham Lincoln

                  by Gustogirl on Fri Mar 18, 2011 at 01:30:48 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

          •  but this was intigated internally (4+ / 0-)

            so, let's hope that while the international community is offering support, the Libyan people get to maintain ownership of this and get to choose their new government for themselves.

            They seem to be inspired by the Tunisians and Libyans, so it would appear they are seeking representative democracy. That's the best we can hope for. who they choose to represent them simply isn't up to us.

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