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View Diary: Everything You Never Wanted to Know about Nuclear Containments (214 comments)

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  •  Same and same (13+ / 0-)

    This is the Mark I design.  The refueling is done from above the reactor and the pools are in the same relative location.  I cannot say that Oyster Creek would be any safer IF the same conditions existed there.  The thing is, at Oyster Creek or any of the other US Mark I's they would have vented the hydrogen up the offgas stack.  It would not have had the opportunity to blow the roof off of the reactor building.  Instead, the release would go directly to the atmosphere.  Not all that comforting I guess, but at least better than exploding.

    Free: The Authoritarians - all about those who follow strong leaders.

    by kbman on Fri Mar 18, 2011 at 07:53:50 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  So, a determined terrorist ... (5+ / 0-)

      ...could do what in regard to the spent-fuel pool? (Probably best for both our sakes not to be too specific here. My question is, at its core, are these pools vulnerable to a conceivable terrorist attack?

      Don't tell me what you believe. Tell me what you do and I'll tell you what you believe.

      by Meteor Blades on Fri Mar 18, 2011 at 08:10:13 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  In theory I suppose any target is vulnerable (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        erush1345, LookingUp

        to a truly determined terrorist.  I have a hard time imagining how they could mess with the fuel pool though.  Entering the perimeter of the plant would require an armed assault.  Getting into the reactor building itself would require they blow the heavy steel security doors.  There are also likely individual security doors leading to the refuel level, providing more opportunities to be stopped before they could succeed.  Trying to attack it from outside is going to be fairly ineffectual unless they were to lob multiple mortars to the exact right location.  And remember, even if they blew the roof off at Oyster Creek the situation would not be like at Fukushima because that alone would not affect the cooling operations of the fuel pool.  They would still need to get in a direct hit on the pool to actually wreak havoc.

        Given the costs and risks of such an operation I'd stick to blowing up bridges - far more cost-effective.

        Free: The Authoritarians - all about those who follow strong leaders.

        by kbman on Fri Mar 18, 2011 at 08:45:04 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  best terrorist scenario (0+ / 0-)

          Go after the water intakes and shell the switch yard
          to hit grid power to the station and hit the diesel storage yards.

          It turns out damage to the secondary systems will
          cascade into a primary loss  

          you have to whack the water intakes and the diesel tanks
          and condensate water storage and grid power,  but,
          if you were to set up a dozen 81 MM mortars you could do it.

          George Bush is Living proof of the axiom "Never send a boy to do a man's job" E -2.25 S -4.10

          by nathguy on Fri Mar 18, 2011 at 09:31:16 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  From where? (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            KenBee, erush1345, LookingUp

            Highway 9?  There is a rather large compound surrounding the plant.  The switchyard and condenser intakes are behind the plant which is backed up to the old Forked River site.  So essentially we're talking miles to your target in a region that is under guard and will not provide you clear sight lines to what you're trying to hit.  Good luck with that plan.

            Free: The Authoritarians - all about those who follow strong leaders.

            by kbman on Fri Mar 18, 2011 at 10:43:45 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  you don't want us to talk about this threat? (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          kbman

          clearly this is an obvious problem, now we have maps and design charts and photos even more easily available, and plenty of talk and activity about it...and haven't we seen where the spent fuel pools are up high in the buildings and basically under a tin roof?

          Haven't the tv's been demonstrating the coverage and attention and disruption and terror this can generate?

          Like I said the other day, even if you lived in a cave you'd know all this by now.

           The location, loading, and vulnerabilty of the spent fuel pools a dangerous flaw given the current state of the world we have to talk about it, and yes we need to diary about it.

          Your input is greatly appreciated on this issue, this diary is very helpful with the examination of it.

          And the observation of this flaw and vulnerability has very huge implications...

          Even an eedjit with a Cessna could and would disrupt ..oh, lets say New York, that's within the 50 mile radius of Indian Point, where would you put all those people? They may not be in danger, but the panic will be hard to stop despite all the talking suits.

          Are you going to go door to door and convince people to shelter in place?

          Not gonna happen.

          And believe me, if a dumbass like me can think of it, demented haters are way down that path.

          Not attacking this vulnerability has been, I wager we'll soon see, a very high level collusion in among the people with responsibility for 'Homeland Securitay'..cause it would, I'm guessing here...costs too much.

           These scenarios are being discussed on talk radio today..we should as well.

          And remember,  an attack is totally successful if it terrorizes and disrupts society...not whether it really works to make the spent fuel burn.

          This is all too obvious.

          Anyway, good diary,  great comments and discussion.

          "Responsible people leave neither loaded guns nor paranoid, eliminationist ideologies laying around for the mentally ill to play with".....Driftglass

          by KenBee on Sat Mar 19, 2011 at 01:53:36 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Lakewood AFB is within eyesight of the top (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            erush1345, BachFan, KenBee

            of "Forked River Mountain" (elevation 184 feet) ... if you stand on top of a large vehicle to see over the tree tops :)

            This is probably less than a one minute flight time for the USAF.

            Free: The Authoritarians - all about those who follow strong leaders.

            by kbman on Sat Mar 19, 2011 at 03:18:21 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Correction and clarification (0+ / 0-)

              Confused names, it is Lakehurst Naval Air Station - the same place where the Hindenburg exploded.  This is just west of the town of Lakewood and about ten miles north of the plant.  The nearby Air Force base there is McGuire AFB which is adjacent to Fort Dix.  It is twenty miles northwest of the plant.  You can see the lights from each of these locations from the top of FRM and standing on a Bronco's roof.

              Free: The Authoritarians - all about those who follow strong leaders.

              by kbman on Sun Mar 20, 2011 at 11:10:00 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  Much easier to attack Wal-Mart with an AK47 (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            erush1345, kbman

            This falls into the wild speculation category. As Prof. John Mueller pointed out way back in 2006, Al Qaeda simply lacked the capacity to do much of anything in America any more due to the rapid decline of its operational capability in the aftermath of 9/11 and the U.S. attack on Afghanistan.

            They now lack the ability to go after your local mall with two guys and a pair of AK-47s, let alone take on a nuclear power plant with a military assault.

            •  al qaeda may but Al-Cracker (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              KenBee

              is still out there reading the turner Diaries.

              George Bush is Living proof of the axiom "Never send a boy to do a man's job" E -2.25 S -4.10

              by nathguy on Sat Mar 19, 2011 at 05:28:30 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  IRS attacked by a nut in a Cessna: about 2000lbs. (0+ / 0-)

                bigger faster planes, loaded with whatever, explosive, poisonous, corrosive, whatever...OK City bombing..those people still out there.

                this is obvious that the choices are bad and the results are expensive either way , probablility made greater by the wall to wall coverage and diagrams, photos, etc....also increased probability of commercial fearmongering for just such taxpayer funded 'solutions' while schools get shorted, social support gets cut...that kills many people too.

                Al Q and Al Cracka both winning.

                 

                "Responsible people leave neither loaded guns nor paranoid, eliminationist ideologies laying around for the mentally ill to play with".....Driftglass

                by KenBee on Sat Mar 19, 2011 at 10:33:50 PM PDT

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                •  al cracker is going to get (0+ / 0-)

                  100,000 angry unemplyed vets into it's ranks.

                  George Bush is Living proof of the axiom "Never send a boy to do a man's job" E -2.25 S -4.10

                  by nathguy on Sun Mar 20, 2011 at 07:28:17 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

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