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View Diary: Everything You Never Wanted to Know about Nuclear Containments (214 comments)

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  •  you are wildly wrong. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    greeseyparrot, akmk

    According to Japan Nuclear Agency

    Containment is damaged on #2 and #3

    The Temperature is rising in Pools 5 and 6

    so, they have some real problems because units 2, 3 have lost containment and unit 4 is critically low on water.

    George Bush is Living proof of the axiom "Never send a boy to do a man's job" E -2.25 S -4.10

    by nathguy on Fri Mar 18, 2011 at 09:22:21 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  The damage to the containment in 2 is in the torus (10+ / 0-)

      and is not a breach of primary containment to the environment.  There have been no reports of damage to the containment at unit #3.  In fact, at the time of the hydrogen explosion TEPCO included in their announcement that the primary containment at unit 3 was undamaged.  There have been no intervening incidents to change this state of affairs.  Please provide a link to this information.  

      As far as temperatures rising in the pools at 5 and 6, they now have off-site power available to run the normal cooling systems.  As there have been no explosions at 5 or 6 it should not be a problem getting the pools back to a stable condition.  Regarding the water level at unit 4, there was a comment made earlier in this diary that claimed visual inspection from the air has confirmed that there is water in pool #4 despite claims the past two days that it had boiled dry.

      Link

      The Japanese government says that there is water covering the fuel rods in the spent-fuel pool of reactor #4 at the crippled Fukushima nuclear power plant.

      On Wednesday, U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC) head Gregory Jaczko said at a U.S. congressional hearing that "there is no water in the spent-fuel pool" at reactor #4, Bloomberg reported. There were also reports that the zirconium cladding that makes up the fuel rods was burning, which could result in a massive radiation release.

      But this evening Hidehiko Nishiyama, deputy director-general of the Nuclear and Industry Safety Agency, told reporters that a review of video shot from a helicopter and an on-the-ground check by a worker had confirmed that there is water in the pool. If true, the announcement is one piece of good news in a week-long struggle to cool the fuel in the reactors and block the emanating radiation.

      ...

      The Los Angeles Times had reported that photos taken by a Global Hawk drone suggested a "major breach" in the walls of the spent nuclear fuel pool was causing water to continually leak out. "I would suppose there are no cracks in the spent nuclear fuel pool. But this is a matter we need to verify urgently," said Nishiyama.

       

      Free: The Authoritarians - all about those who follow strong leaders.

      by kbman on Fri Mar 18, 2011 at 10:29:30 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Good reply (6+ / 0-)

        I like facts with links supporting those facts. Not conjecture and a unsubstantiated claim as the poster you replied to did. If you are going to make claims back them up with links. If you are too lazy to do that don`t make the claim.

        Good work kbman!!

        Not every story has a happy ending but Im doing my best to make mine so. Come and take a look at my discussion forum: TheNewCurevents We are looking for new active members!

        by ProgressiveTokyo on Sat Mar 19, 2011 at 01:36:42 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  I hate to burst your little bubble (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        BusyinCA

        http://estaticos.elmundo.es/...

        see where it says Reactor pressure vessel integrity
        and it's yellow and "Unknown"  that means
        It's damaged and they just can't get the stones together
        to say they breached the reactor core.

        and the next line where it says "Containment integrity"
        and it's "Suspected"  yeah, that means it's blown through.

        you see where it says "Core Cooling"  and they are all Red?

        That means they can't get any of the core cooling systems up.

        See the Building Integrity and it's Red?

        So look enjoy your little dream of how great it is.
        This is the Chernobyl of the west.

        It isn't a major catastrophe when you have choppers dumping water on the open heart of a reactor out of control.

        George Bush is Living proof of the axiom "Never send a boy to do a man's job" E -2.25 S -4.10

        by nathguy on Sat Mar 19, 2011 at 04:57:09 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  You're still being over the top on this (0+ / 0-)

          IAEA Status Chart

          I'll take IAEA's data, not the media's ...

          Also, as the reactors cool the releases will stop.  They have never been at near the rate of releases at Chernobyl nor have they had the enormous amount of transport energy that was provided by the fire there.  

          Yes, there are containment integrity issues at both 2 and 3.  At unit 2 it appears they may have ruptured the torus, and at unit 3 my best guess would be trouble with the drywell dome cap - the plugs that fill the refueling opening in the top of the drywell.

          There is zero evidence that there is reactor vessel integrity trouble at any of the reactors.  They appear to be running high pressure in the reactor at unit 2, likely trying to avoid having to do another release while the torus is not solid.

          Given that the off-site power is being restored this weekend and that reactor thermal power has already dropped to about 0.5% of fullpower, I'd say the containments' present condition is not an alarming circumstance.  What it means is that the stuff they were venting from the primary to the secondary containment is now going directly to the environment instead of through the reactor building first.  There may be some minor increase in the amount of radioactive material released by this route, but it is certainly not the many orders of magnitude which would be required to reach Chernobyl status.

          Meanwhile, as long as they can keep water in the core they are not going to be having any kind of core breach issue.  And given that they've been able to keep water over half the core without having off-site power available, this should not be an issue moving forward.  The large energy accident the containment is intended to hold is no longer a concern with any serious probability of happening.

          Free: The Authoritarians - all about those who follow strong leaders.

          by kbman on Sun Mar 20, 2011 at 01:01:22 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  um (0+ / 0-)
            And given that they've been able to keep water over half the core

            It's that other half that's the problem.

            and BTW, that chart if you bother doesn't come from the
            Media it comes from the Japanese Nuclear Industry.

            The Japan Atomic Industrial Forum,Inc. (JAIF) was incorporated as the comprehensive non-governmental organization on nuclear energy in Japan on March 1, 1956.

            JAIF is a non-profit organization incorporated under the auspices of the industry to promote peaceful utilization of nuclear energy for the benefit of Japanese nationals in consideration of the importance of the peaceful use of nuclear energy, radioisotopes and radiation in a wide variety of fields. JAIF intends to make a comprehensive study of nuclear energy, exchange knowledge and incorporate various opinions into a consensus, to support the establishment of the government's nuclear energy development and utilization plan and the promotion of its policies, and to help sound development of the national economy and well-being.

            George Bush is Living proof of the axiom "Never send a boy to do a man's job" E -2.25 S -4.10

            by nathguy on Sun Mar 20, 2011 at 07:32:53 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  That other half has long been toast (0+ / 0-)

              Keeping sufficient water in the vessel is the key here, filling the region that used to contain fuel is not as important as it was earlier in the accident.  If you've ever seen photos of the core at Three Mile Island you'll understand what I mean.  The TMI core was only exposed a few hours and it melted and crumbled significantly.  And while there wasn't as much energy in either of these reactors, the top of the fuel has certainly been exposed long enough that it is no longer intact.  And based on TMI, I believe it is not even largely in that space anymore.  As the fuel cladding melts and releases the fuel, the fuel will melt with it into molten globs that fall to the bottom of the vessel.  There may be some fuel bundle structure material left up there, but all of the heavier stuff is likely at the bottom of the vessels by now.

              Keeping heavily borated water in the vessels both helps to cool the fuel and also prevent any of the melted portions of the fuel to create local criticality.  As long as it remains covered the remaining portion of the fuel should stay structurally intact and not allow for a larger meltdown.  These factors work together to make it so that melting fuel eating its way through the reactor vessel should not be a serious concern under present conditions.  As long as they can maintain present water levels that should continue to be the case.

              I'm going to prepare a status summary update today and invite you to bring your criticisms and questions there as well.  I have no problem with having my take on things challenged.  I believe that I can support my views based on the known facts and reasonable suppositions.  But I welcome you to disprove what I believe to be fact, or to show why what I believe to be reasonable supposition actually is not.

              Free: The Authoritarians - all about those who follow strong leaders.

              by kbman on Sun Mar 20, 2011 at 10:29:29 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  it looks like the worst of the TMI unit (0+ / 0-)

                was damage at the top third.

                The problem the Japanese have is having a much longer
                and larger Loss of Coolant event.

                TMI was at 4 AM and the New Shift came in at 6 AM
                leading to no more then about 2 hours of trouble.

                Yeah they lost cooling on about half the reactor but for a
                short period of time.

                Here it's been a lot worse and a lot longer,
                I wouldn't want to make assumptions
                that it's just like TMI.

                Maybe the Boron will prevent recriticality but,
                I no longer want to bet on anything.

                The real concern is the spent fuel pools.

                something going bad there, can lead to cascading failures
                back to the Racs again.

                George Bush is Living proof of the axiom "Never send a boy to do a man's job" E -2.25 S -4.10

                by nathguy on Sun Mar 20, 2011 at 02:26:48 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

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