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View Diary: Aeron. order (AO) 87 - The press won't show it [FOIA] . (118 comments)

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  •  Too bad there's no free press (4.00)
    In the CSA (Corporate States of America).

    You should change the title to something that'll grab some more attention:

    "What Bush hid from CBS" or something like that.

    "...there is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so." Hamlet, Act II, Scene ii.

    by thingamabob on Mon Feb 28, 2005 at 10:30:35 AM PST

    •  exactly my point!!!!!!!!!! (none)
    •  But It's Not Just Because of Conspiracy (none)
      Our Constitutional system of government neither protects nor provides for a press in an economy at a level of complexity & advancement of today's.

      Then we have mass media, for which (other than their press functions) no concept at all exists within the Constitution. They're almost totally uncivilized territory where we conduct crucial societal business with hardly any rights or protections for society or citizens.

      When life treats your government like a toy, sooner or later somebody has to consider the possibility that it is a toy.

      We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy....--ML King, "Beyond Vietnam"

      by Gooserock on Mon Feb 28, 2005 at 11:30:18 AM PST

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      •  The freedom of the press (4.00)
        Actually was born to counter something like the problem you so well outlined.

        Paine and the other pamphleteers were thta because they had no choice. There was a press in the colonies. A corporate/monarchy controlled press who either didnt wish to or couldnt publish dissent.

        Thus the first amendment. The lefty blogs are todays equivalent to the pamphleteers.

        Of course modern day propagandists are more organised, more decietful, and more blatantly corrupt. But at least Jefferson and the boys left us hope.

        The Democratic party needs to adopt its own moral and values principles (clawed)

        by cdreid on Mon Feb 28, 2005 at 12:45:06 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  No, I Don't Think People Yet Grasp (4.00)
          what I'm outlining.

          Mass media are like nothing we have had before. The constitute a new world, not some trivial news organ. "Press" is only a small subset of what they do.

          Today's mass media are literally a primary commerce and living space for us. Kids spend more hours per day with mass media than with their parents. Much of our experience with many aspects of life comes more in mass media press, entertainment, education or recreation than it does in the physical world. And experience that doesn't come through the mass media has a high likelihood of being unknown to the common people.

          And yet we not only have no rights in this world, we have no physical ability to influence it in any way in the normal course of life.

          The closest model for colonial times would be for the Crown to have moved the middle class population of the colonies onto palace grounds around Britain and given them enough of the apearance of royal life that they would think they were part of the family, and would of course be cut off from seeing how ordinary people live.

          So OK, along comes "freedom of the press," and the colonial pamphleteers become able to mail their treatises to the people living in their fantasy worlds.

          All that we North American British would remember about that time would be the obscure Jefferson Scream.

          We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy....--ML King, "Beyond Vietnam"

          by Gooserock on Mon Feb 28, 2005 at 07:15:14 PM PST

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          •  Yep, you nailed it. (none)
            Our Constitution governs the physcial world - one in which we no longer live. The world inhabited by the media and, by extension, the rest of us, exists essentially uncontrolled except by whatever market forces affect it.

            One thing to consider, though. Those market forces are determined solely by the consumer. Specifically in the case of television, the consumer votes literally every fifteen minutes. Given this sort of scrutiny, it's conceivable that a mass effort among citizens - as would ideally be reflected in Nielson households - could tip the balance any way we wanted it to.

            This is why I've long wanted to establish the Union of American Consumers. Our dollars are the only things we have left representing us in this world, physical or otherwise.

            •  Consumers Union (none)
              You mean something like this?

              I disagree with your statement that "market forces are determined solely by the consumer."

              Consumers are not simply independent freely acting self-motivated agents. Consumers can be manipulated. That's what advertising is all about. Now you are suggesting that consumers band together and coordinate their consumer decisions in order to pursue some agenda. Do you think that this has not already occured to producers? Do you think that they don't have their own class-based agenda that they advance through lobbying, corruption, market manipulation, advertising and other propaganda (news, infotainment, TV in general)? You imply that producers simply try to deliver exactly what people want without trying to influence what they want. This kind of free-market idealism is very compatible with right-wing rhetoric - "Just get the government off our backs and the all-benevolent free market will give us exactly what we want."

          •  I understand (none)
            However you might very well consider that DKos, MyDD, etc etc etc are the new Pamphleteers.

            And that, in the Colonies the conditions re public discourse and freedom of speech were Worse.. not better.. than even modern corporate america.

            At least we CAN speak out whether they like it or not. And like the pamphleteers.. only those who Seek the truth will find us.

            The Democratic party needs to adopt its own moral and values principles (clawed)

            by cdreid on Tue Mar 01, 2005 at 08:08:54 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

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