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View Diary: Fukushima Status Update Summary (289 comments)

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  •  As I've pointed out above (15+ / 0-)

    They really only need horseshoes accuracy here, as in "close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and getting water back into the spent fuel pools."  If you refer to the BWR diagram you will see the spent fuel pool on the right hand side of the reactor dome at the top level of the facility.  The pool is recessed some 45 feet or so into the floor there.  All they need to do is get the water close, gravity will do the rest.  And for the first day they were doing this at unit 4, getting the water in the general vicinity was also helpful in reducing the overall temperature of the area.

    What this represents is fairly responsible reporting, not overstating what was accomplished, only what was attempted.  And despite not being able to be certain of the conditions, they do have the thermal imaging being provided by the USAF.

    Free: The Authoritarians - all about those who follow strong leaders.

    by kbman on Sun Mar 20, 2011 at 04:39:48 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Horseshoes! Good one! n/t (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Jake Johnson, kbman

      - bp

      "I don't care who your goddam emperor is: his clothes still suck"

      by b00g13p0p on Sun Mar 20, 2011 at 04:55:10 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  It's come to this (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Drama Queen, Jake Johnson, kbman, polecat

      You know and I know, we never expected this even though we worried about it.

    •  USAF Hasn't Publicly Released The Data (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Drama Queen, neroden

      I still don't see any substantiation for the doubts about the U.S. regulator's statement that the pools were dry. I think that idea was spread by the denialists to undermine Jaczko.

      Make no mistake: The industry is already in propaganda mode, and there is absolutely no lie that will be out of bounds for them.

      •  Note the link below to Science Insider ... (5+ / 0-)

        Also, if the reports of a dry fuel pool had been accurate then I believe we would have seen much higher radiation readings in the vicinity of unit 4.  Most of the reports I've seen regarding high radiation levels concerned units 2 & 3 and correlated with events at those locations.  Also, the reports of a fuel pool fire were almost certainly incorrect for the same reason - we would be seeing much higher spikes of radiation levels over that time frame.  Also, the fires reported from unit 4 were relatively short lived.  This would not be expected to be the case if the fuel cladding were burning.  Had that been the case it would have been a very high temperature chemical fire and water would have only made it worse.

        Free: The Authoritarians - all about those who follow strong leaders.

        by kbman on Sun Mar 20, 2011 at 06:04:31 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Response (0+ / 0-)

          "Science Insider" reported nothing new. All they did was read the Internet. And their story you've cited was published two days ago, likely based on information even older.

          There have been no "reports of a spent fuel fire." I don't know how you are coming up with that. The are fears of a future spent fuel fire as a result of the pool being dry, or (even worse, from a fire risk standpoint) only partially covered.

          I think what actually happened is that the pool was drained pretty fast. A good guess is that the pool has one or more cracks that allowed water to escape through the bottom and/or the sides. Whether it was the result of the earthquake, the tsunami, the hydrogen explosion or some of each is impossible to know.

          Since then, the Japanese have been trying to refill that pool by dumping water on the roof and spraying into the hole from the side. We have no reliable information as to whether or not this has worked.

          •  Everyone and their brother were claiming there was (6+ / 0-)

            a fire in the spent fuel pool the night they had the pump oil fire.  It was being reported by the BBC and in The Guardian among other outlets.  And in case you've forgotten, the dry fuel pool story is several days old now.  Here's how it was reported on FOX News .  The guy they were interviewing is an industry apologist, and even he claimed the fuel pool was on fire.

            Free: The Authoritarians - all about those who follow strong leaders.

            by kbman on Sun Mar 20, 2011 at 06:49:14 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Fox? You've Got to Be Kidding (0+ / 0-)

              There have been no claims that the spent fuel rods are or were on fire. There was a fire near the pool, which the Japanese attributed to a hydrogen explosion there.

              The denialists invented the fuel oil explosion early on. They also tried to blame the reactor explosions on fuel oil and/or hydrogen leaks from pumps.

              This was because they didn't want to admit that there were partial meltdowns in three reactors, and major problems with spent fuel. To do that would have been to admit that this was Three Mile Island multiplied by four.

              But events made that fiction impossible to sustain. The Japanese themselves have dropped the fuel oil fire story, as this trade industry chart shows.

              •  You are simply divorced from reality here Jake (8+ / 0-)

                Nobody has claimed anything about the hydrogen explosions that is not consistent with what happened.  It has been quite clearly stated for the past week that fuel was being damaged and producing hydrogen.  I don't know where you are getting these stories about pumps leaking hydrogen and other such nonsense.

                You also just stated that "There have been no claims that the spent fuel rods are or were on fire" despite the fact that I just showed you a video of a report doing just that.  I don't give a damn WHO it was from, it was a report of a fuel pool fire.  And they were far from the only ones to report that.

                Free: The Authoritarians - all about those who follow strong leaders.

                by kbman on Sun Mar 20, 2011 at 07:43:54 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  You Are Wrong (0+ / 0-)
                  Nobody has claimed anything about the hydrogen explosions that is not consistent with what happened.  It has been quite clearly stated for the past week that fuel was being damaged and producing hydrogen.  I don't know where you are getting these stories about pumps leaking hydrogen and other such nonsense.

                  Remember the guy whose faulty math louisev posted here last night? He runs a denialist site that gets a lot of play among his fellow denialists worldwide. louisev got the guy's faulty math from a foreign site that had reposted the original.

                  Anyway, this same guy, who by the way wants to sell portable nukes and who thinks the lesson of Fukushima is that nuclear power is overregulated, was one of the first to spread the "hydrogen leaking from a generator"" theory:

                  Update: (March 12, 2011 11:20 am EST) There have been reports of a hydrogen explosion and walls crumbling to expose a steel frame at what is described as an outbuilding at the Fukushima Daiichi power station. Those reports triggered my memory of a hydrogen explosion that occurred at the Tampa Electric Company Gannon coal fired power plant on April 8, 1999.

                  In the Gannon Station case, the hydrogen for the explosion came from the cooling system for the very large electrical generator. Maintenance workers apparently did not ensure that the system was properly purged before opening it for maintenance.

                  My guess is that a similar generator cooling system was in use at Fukushima Daiichi. Considering the devastation that has occurred as a result of the earthquake and the tsunami, it would not be terribly surprising if the electrical generator cooling system developed some hydrogen leaks. From what I have read about the actions taken to cool down the nuclear fuel inside the reactor, which is inside a robust containment building, not a steel frame building, I am guessing that the explosion had nothing to do with the heat source that normally supplies the the steam to turn the turbines that turn that electrical generator.

                  We also saw claims (including, I believe, from you) that the explosion in #4 was from oil and not hydrogen. And you've claimed that others were attributing the fires at #4 to spent fuel being on fire. When asked for proof, you supplied a Fox News interview with someone claiming to be a nuclear expert.

                  You really, really need to pay more attention to the facts, kbman.

            •  i recall this (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              kbman, buddabelly

              as far as I can tell, Jake, the only reason that you're still on this hobbyhorse is because you have a suspicion that somehow Jaczko has access to secret detectors, even though he told Congress and the White House that all of the data he has, has been released.  So no, he hasn't got any secret sources that are providing him with better info, and you have no reason to claim he has.  READ THE PRESS BRIEFING.  

              "Kossacks are held to a higher standard. Like Hebrew National hot dogs." - blueaardvark

              by louisev on Sun Mar 20, 2011 at 07:07:30 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

    •  I'd Rather Play Horseshoes ... (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      randallt, Wheever, keikekaze, jcrit

      ... with horseshoes that haven't been irradiated. I hope things are going well, but I am very far from convinced. From what I can see, the highest control has been achieved over the information, not the radioactivity.

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