Skip to main content

View Diary: Fukushima Status Update Summary (289 comments)

Comment Preferences

  •  seawater spray continuing.. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Jake Johnson

    according to the JAIF reports,  but, you discount them
    as invalid and worthless and are making fairly racist
    attacks on them.

    George Bush is Living proof of the axiom "Never send a boy to do a man's job" E -2.25 S -4.10

    by nathguy on Mon Mar 21, 2011 at 04:42:09 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Your continued attacks are simply a sign of your (0+ / 0-)

      ideological bias.

      Go to the second page of the JAIF PDF.  It lists the parameters in the table and gives the pieces of data which are used to evaluate them.  For "Reactor Pressure Vessel Integrity" it lists "Water Level of the Reactor Pressure Vessel" and "Pressure of the Reactor Pressure Vessel".  

      Now, go to page three and look at the pressure readings.  The reading for unit 1 is exceptionally low, and the readings for units 2 and 3 are negative.  In other words, the pressure readings are not reliable at this time.  We know this because we know that there is in fact still boiling in the reactors and pressure build up is a problem.  They certainly aren't pulling a vacuum in units 2 or 3.

      Bottom line, kalmoth had it exactly right.  All that yellow box means is that the pressure is not known.

      Ready to stop calling me a liar yet?

      Free: The Authoritarians - all about those who follow strong leaders.

      by kbman on Mon Mar 21, 2011 at 07:28:39 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Pot, Meet Kettle! (0+ / 0-)

        Ideological bias? Oh really!

      •  Thank you for reading the jaif data (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Jake Johnson

        Integrity breach and negative gauge pressure are correlated.

        The gauges may be PSIA not PSIG and if primary was raised due to earlier venting,  then PSIA can go negative, then rising trend line can be either boiling or bleed in.

        If you ever lived in tornado country you would know gauges and fluid systems get weird when  the pressure rapidly changes.

        If we had a leak of short lived material into primary and it's boiling, while colder water is being pumped into the rac, neg pressure could be seen...  Depends upon rates.....

        George Bush is Living proof of the axiom "Never send a boy to do a man's job" E -2.25 S -4.10

        by nathguy on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 07:43:03 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  you have never read a gauge. (0+ / 0-)

        I looked at your citation.

        Interesting.  Rac 2 is reading -0.018MPa and Rac 3 is
        reading -0.01MPa....

        So thats minus 18,000 Pa.  Sounds like a whole lot?

        Is that what you claim as "Meaningless"?

        Here's the answer...

        In Small Words because obviously you have trouble with complex ideas.

        In the world of reality, engineering systems have Error in them.  You can call it noise, uncertainty, slop, limits to knowledge or Error.

        Pressure gauges are part of that error.

        Before selecting a pressure gauge for its accuracy, WWD readers need to first understand what accuracy means in a mechanical pressure gauge. Accuracy is the conformity of a pressure gauge reading to an accepted standard, e.g., deadweight tester. Inaccuracy is the difference (error) between the true value and the indication expressed as a percent of the span. Total accuracy error includes hysteresis and repeatability errors.

        It is important to know that accuracy is not a percentage of the gauge reading. For a mechanical pressure gauge, accuracy is a percentage of the full range, full scale, or span of the gauge. For example, if a 0-100 psi pressure gauge with an ASME Grade 1A 1.0% full-scale accuracy is being used, one can expect a maximum tolerance of ±1 psi anywhere within the entire scale of the gauge. Another example of accuracy that is sometimes confusing is a range like 30-in. hgvac/0/30 psi. This is a compound scale, and there is a tolerance in the vacuum and pressure portions of this range. Let’s presume the requirement is for an ASME grade 2A accuracy, which is ±0.5% full scale. To calculate the tolerance or inaccuracy, multiply the accuracy--0.5% or 0.005--times the full scale range, which consists of the vacuum and pressure portions of the range; in this case, 30-in. hgvac (equal to 15 psi) + 30 psi = 45 psi. The calculation to determine accuracy is 0.005 x 45 psi = ±0.225 psi. This is the maximum allowable tolerance anywhere throughout the entire full range. To take the calculation one step further, in order to define tolerance in proper units of measurement, on the vacuum side of the range 0.225 psi is equal to 0.458-in. hg.


        So lets take those numbers,  -18,000 Pascals and convert
        them to English units.  That's -2 PSI.  

        Now, that's a very interesting number.  Most mechanical gaugues are 0-X where X is a large number.  Here they
        are reading negative which says to me these are most likely Pressure/Vacuum gauges.  

        That means they use these gauges to test Pressure and vacuum.  YOu pull a vacuum to make sure you have no
        gas leaks, then you push pressure to make sure you have no pressure leaks.  

        now a BWR reactor runs about 1000 PSI,  so figure the
        gauge is ranged for 1500 PSI.  Lets assume you do a vacuum test, so you pull -14 PSIa so the gauge is ranged for -15 PSI.

        So figure a range of 1515 PSI.  Let's say it's a very good gauge and good for 0.1%.(Cheap gauges are +/- 10%, good gauges are 1%, High end gauges are 0.1%)

        So that gauge could be off by 1.5 PSI  No sweat.

        So, what you are ranting about as "NEGATIVE DATA"
        looks to me as Reading Zip. within the error bars.

        George Bush is Living proof of the axiom "Never send a boy to do a man's job" E -2.25 S -4.10

        by nathguy on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 10:18:48 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Your quibbling is noted (0+ / 0-)

          I was pointing out that the gauges are not operating.  The comment about pulling a vacuum was sarcastic, not meant to be a technical evaluation.  You have repeatedly gone out of your way to misconstrue what I've written.  You are quite fortunate that Meteor Blades is no longer enforcing community standards here.  It this clear enough?  Or should I use smaller words?

          Free: The Authoritarians - all about those who follow strong leaders.

          by kbman on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 12:33:02 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Use smaller words (0+ / 0-)

            He can't tell the difference betweenthe bird flue and the plague.

            is this the formula for a Massive outbreak of plague?

            Oh yeah, 10,000 bodies washing up around japan.

            Something about a nuclear reactor which the radiation also causes immunosuppression?

            we may have to stop all flights out of japan

            •  you lack a dictionary Plublius? (0+ / 0-)

              from the Web Dictionary..

              Definitions of plague on the Web:

                  a serious (sometimes fatal) infection of rodents caused by Yersinia pestis and accidentally transmitted to humans by the bite of a flea that has bitten an infected animal
                 any epidemic disease with a high death rate

              Thank you for playing...  

              Let me know when you wish a truck load of epic fail

              George Bush is Living proof of the axiom "Never send a boy to do a man's job" E -2.25 S -4.10

              by nathguy on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 01:02:49 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  so now the gauges aren't operating? (0+ / 0-)

            So how do you know the Reactors in 1 and 2 are maintaining integrity?

            Those gauges are awfully tough.  if they aren't reading,
            it's more likely the reactor is broken, then the
            gauge is broken.

            George Bush is Living proof of the axiom "Never send a boy to do a man's job" E -2.25 S -4.10

            by nathguy on Tue Mar 22, 2011 at 01:00:11 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

  • Recommended (140)
  • Community (69)
  • Bernie Sanders (49)
  • Elections (36)
  • 2016 (30)
  • Hillary Clinton (30)
  • Culture (29)
  • Climate Change (29)
  • Environment (26)
  • Science (26)
  • Civil Rights (25)
  • Media (21)
  • Law (20)
  • Republicans (20)
  • Labor (19)
  • Barack Obama (18)
  • Spam (18)
  • Trans-Pacific Partnership (18)
  • International (15)
  • White House (15)
  • Click here for the mobile view of the site