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  •  Think of the converse, snafubar. Do women not have (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    blindyone, conlakappa

    the courage, motivation and conviction to get things done.=? Do they not have anger , the realization that they are dealing with monsters who will maul them/us and feel nothing?  Have you never heard of Nancy Pelosi , the Suffragettes and others?  

    The suggestion that the want of these emotions is equivalent to the absnece of certain anatomy, and therefore weak, is outright sexist because it is intended to say that a man so lacking is like a woman, who has none of those anatomical qualities, any by implicatino none of those character qualities either.

    •  Yes, you have all the conviction (0+ / 0-)

      balls, anger, motivation and arguably weaponry (not neccessarily ballistic) to do anything you want to.

      And what is so tragic, what is so sad,

      in my never humble but always worthless opinion

      is how you have lost the whole point of the entire argument by wallowing down here in the minutea of an argument

      ...with a guy who's on your side.

      It's a typical thing with Kos that saddens me.

      Republilcans, like I said, when I call them motherfuckers, is a genuine warning to their mom so she can get a head start or find some effective defense - because they'd do it and then talk about the patriotic duty and sacred religious principles of the very act if the goals are to their liking.

      Meanwhile, over here in Liberalland, I'm willing to go toe to toe with the big bad wolf because those cocksuckers really will destroy this country (all the while claiming they are trying to save it from librul commie bastard traitors who apparently serve no other purpose)

      ...and you're here haggling with me.

      Thud.

      When I call Nancy Pelosi  a cunt, or start slinging things about your mom and what I'm going to do to her -

      then you can go apeshit about "motherfucker" or "balls"

      But when you put meaning behind my words that were never there, and insist taht because your're a woman you have a right to see them there anyway -

      I will be less likely to stand by your side no matter what the argument is.

      You want to change the language?

      You've got to change hte culture first.

      I just got 19 hide rates from a bunch of guys in our own Daily Kos RKBA group who apparently also feel that I'm their enemy because of the words I use -

      and I give up.

      If I want to feel like I can't say anything without someone coming after me all I ahve to do is wake up in the morning and the world around me is filled with bigots, racists, atheistophobes, and others who malign my character, impugn my motives and consider me nine ounces shy of the fucking antichrist.

      Those are the people I want all of us to have the fucking balls to hit back as hard as they are hitting us - and do it so the bastards take us seriously because right now we're a joke.

      and you're going to go on a tear about the sexist use  of balls.

      I will promise to leave this thread hanging for you to finish.

      If I say - generically - that the Democrats need to find the balls to hit back at republicans with the same strength they mean to do us harm -- by nature of the lack of specificity otherwise, that includes female Democrats.

      If you want to stand on our sidelines and carry on about how the word "balls" offends you because you feel I did not give the females aligned in our cause due credit or have slighted them in some way -

      ...even though I never said anything about how those members have less balls, less courage, less conviction,

      it is you who have decided that the matter at hand is not how badly the Republicans are trying to skull fuck our grandmothers with a rusty egg beater - no, now it's about semantics and how women feel slighted because they don't get enough credit for their courage without a testicular sack.

      If I asked you to "suck my balls" - (which, for the record, note that I did not and dont' intend to) - then you can get indignant about sexism on daily kos.

      But if you want to claim that somehow by citing a rally call for ALL of us to find the courage, conviction, motivation, moxie, energy, strength - and means - to hit back as hard as we get hit - that somehow I've slighted women of our party by saying we need to find our balls.

      Frankly, you're on you're own.

      Fuck it is no surprise to me that Democrats can't get anything done. We are the masters of bullshit minutae while the world attacks us with flamethrowers we light a match and argue about who's candle didn't get lit soon enough and why that hurt their feelings.

      Balls was not about women. YOu made it so.

      If I have to say courage, half the crowd isn't listening because they are thinking "oh, he means balls" -

      Where is will rogers when we need him

      "I belong to no organized political party - I'm a Democrat"

      You know what other phrase I like best by will rogers?

      "Diplomacy is knowing how to say nice doggy until you can find a rock"

      ...and not wasting any time checking to see if the fucking dog has balls or not.

      It's not personal, but fuck this stuff annoys me.

      You can go on with me days on end- but really -

      ...have you been in America long?

      Are you more interested in polite language or that the Republicans call you a traitor, a whore, a baby killer, a communist, a sell out, and have threatened a revolution which, if you forgot - the last one we had killed more Americans - men and women alike - in four years - than every foreign war we've ever fought in combined since 1775.

      Men are going to talk about balls.

      It's better to laugh at us and mock us when we're not around than try to change such an irrational, sexist, mysogynistic breed - especially on those occasions when we've decided to ignore the signals from our balls and fight a battle WITH you rather than against you.

      Robin Williams said it best

      "God gave man a penis and a brain, but only enough blood to run one at a time".

      Do you really want to try to tax such a handicapped system further, or just hold hands and run with us while the moment lasts?

      Take a good look at America - the world attacks us, we unite. We get comfortable, we attack each other.

      Gender issues are a microcosm of this tragedy.

      I don't hate women, I don't diminish them as a function of my character merely by saying "we all need to find some balls to match the energy of our adversaries".

      But hey - knock yourself out. When you're done with me, I can show you guys who will call you names that rhyme with "runt" on a regular basis who think I"m a pussy.

      See where this is going?

      I'm not your biggest problem, and the windmill you're tilting at will only thwack you on the back of the head with the next blade while you're trying to catch up with the one I'm on.

      I don't mean for this to get personal, but my comment was no slight to women.

      Again, I'll accept your indignation the first time you catch me saying "suck my balls" - OK?

      I didn't.

      George Orwell is banging on the lid of his coffin and screaming, "1984 was a cautionary tale, you dolts, not a motivational speech!"

      by snafubar on Mon Mar 28, 2011 at 12:18:29 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I stand by what I said. And you saying (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        blindyone, conlakappa

        you are on my side when using tht kind of language intentionally demeaning of half the nation, only convinces me that I doubt if you know what that side is. The slippery slope to the return of verbal bigotry always gets going by people who don't think through what they say to make sure it ONLY says what they mean, without picking up cultural slurs which are otherwise unacceptable in common public language, rather than guy talk for some guys, and is part of how the progress of the last couple of decades on verbal hate speech is diluted and reversed.  

        •  Fuck it then I'm not on your side (0+ / 0-)

          beat the goddamn horse some more

          It won't get up.

          Carry on Democrats!

          And I mean "Carry on!" because we're never going to get anywhere meaningful while we're chasing this.

          You built me.

          This - my comment - was not about women when I said it.

          Now it is.

          Now, I don't give a fuck.

          Congratulations.

          Now blow me off, tell me that I'm a rat bastard and evidnce of al that is wrong with the world, or that you won't need me or don't want me next to you because of verbal abuse that was nowhere near the original comment.

          YOu made this about an attack on women.

          I made a comment that - you weren't in my head and cant' see no matter how hard you try -

          didn't have a fucking thing to do wtih women.

          Now it does.

          I don't care.

          YOu can go on as long as you want about the big bad wolf you're chasing, but my opinions, as worthless, misguided and hateful as you think they are, were not directed at you when I wrote my original comment.

          Now they are.

          Congratulations.

          Sorry I broke my promise to let you have the last word, but I wanted to be sure you got credit for yoru good works and congratulate you.

          Hate speech?

          I hate people that put words in my mouth that were never there and tthen insist I have no possible means to prove that I meant no harm.

          Now I do

          so that hate you are so vehemently against?

          You just created it.

          Now go on some more about me and make it personal, that will heal this and we'lll surely sing kumbaya before dusk.

          Not.

          You don't thiink I got your point.

          I don't think you got mine.

          Draw.

          Stalemate endures,

          oh what progress we've made.

          By the way - you really don't live in my country if you're still searching for "polite" language.

          I wish - I sincerely wish - you could meet me, forget about this single exchange - because I come to Daily Kos to say thte things that woudl get my fucking jaw broken by Republicans if I said them here in town - and to have ten thousand little ants crawll up my ass because someone wants to have a polite confersation -

          maybe you forgot who/what we're dealing with?

          TUrn me into Emilio Post if you like, but you're still gonna have a lot more work to do with guys who will call you words that rhyme with "runt" to your face and then actually carry through on all the worst you fear if you try to talk back to them -

          I'm not them.

          I'd step in front of them to save you knowing I'd lose

          But go right on and keep beating the horse.

          Have a nice day.

          I wanted my comment to say that Republicans have no shame, will not apologize, and ifyou think mysogyny and male chavenism is the cross you bear, you just took a giant swipe (and came back three times now to rub it in) for a guy who was ostensibly on your side.

          I'm not a sexist.

          I have a potty mouth.

          Don't conflate the two ,

          trust me.

          YOu really want to trust me on this.

          You are making enemies while ranting about your adversaries.

          Carry on.

          George Orwell is banging on the lid of his coffin and screaming, "1984 was a cautionary tale, you dolts, not a motivational speech!"

          by snafubar on Mon Mar 28, 2011 at 12:51:43 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  SO. DO. I. (0+ / 0-)

          Now, who wins?

          George Orwell is banging on the lid of his coffin and screaming, "1984 was a cautionary tale, you dolts, not a motivational speech!"

          by snafubar on Mon Mar 28, 2011 at 12:52:43 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  You said "intentionally" (0+ / 0-)

          and that's why I snapped.

          You cannot decide for me what my intentions were -

          that's first.

          Second, all I've done since this thread started is explain to you that my INTENTIONS were nothing of the kind; YOU imparted meaning to my worsd that I did not intend - and insisted that they are there whether I intend them or not.

          That's how things go wrong.

          I'm really pissed off about this, and now I'm noticing you're seeming to drop it -

          And that is also unfortunate.

          I have a pattern here at Daily Kos - all these people, you're not hte first - who are trying to "teach" me about the ways of the Kos, The Democratic Party, the Country, the world - you're free to hold class any time you want.

          But only the most foolish of teachers insists they have nothing to learn from their students.

          My little lesson for the day is that you can build the monster you're out trying to slay - and you don't have any way possible to tell that monster that you get to decide how or why or on what basis it can act.

          People are free to think as they please - that's a big thing in America now.

          I did not mean to "intentionally" demean half the country.

          That's prtty fuckign ballsy even for me.

          Oops, I did it again.

          Hey, Joe!

          You know those 43 years you've spent on earth around all those other people? You know all the phrases that you year day in, day out, that other people use as easily and freely as you take a breath?

          Well, we're here to say stop it, stop it now, and we're goingt to be pissed if you don't.

          Oh, and all those other people - the ones who may indeed have a much different motive and message behind their use of theword?

          Well, they're not here right now, but their lesson will come when the opportunity presents itself, OK?

          You throw words like "verbal bigotry" arount -

          If I want to demean someone, don't you thihnk with my attitude I'd lay it on a little thicker and harder if that were my INTENTION?

          Seriouslly - I want a reply to this.

          I have a problem with you telling me to stick my finger in a leak in the dyke, when the goddamn thing is falling down around both of us and will drown us all.  

          Don't give me shit for my use of dyke either. Totally different animal.

          This conversation will stay with me for a month.

          it's really sad.

          you are SURE you've won - but what have you gained?

          you say you're not sure I'm on your side =-

          I think I cleared that up now, rigtht?

          I never once in five years at Kos made any comment to you or about you, but now I have a reason to recognize you -

          "yep. there' s the one who accused me of saying something I had never intended, then when I explained it wasn't my intention insisted that I had no choice - it's for her to decide what I meant - and then throw out the "guy talk" line.

          it's fascinating that you can judge so much of my life and not know anything about it.

          Another person accusing me of bigotry in three weeks.

          It's fascinating that you who think you're victims of it cannot see - or would concede to if you were shown evidence of it - how you make your own bed that you dont' like to sleep in.

          I'm sorry that you can't see that.

          I"m not sorry about anything else, but since you aren't either - (particularly ballsy stance, eh?) - well, call this one a draw.

          And so it goes.

          RIP Mr Vonnegut

          George Orwell is banging on the lid of his coffin and screaming, "1984 was a cautionary tale, you dolts, not a motivational speech!"

          by snafubar on Mon Mar 28, 2011 at 01:54:48 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  I agree with you, and I am a woman (0+ / 0-)

        Fuck it is no surprise to me that Democrats can't get anything done. We are the masters of bullshit minutae while the world attacks us with flamethrowers we light a match and argue about who's candle didn't get lit soon enough and why that hurt their feelings.

        This makes me crazy, too. The other side is destroying our nation, while people are having fainting spells over the word, "balls."

        We had better get serious, soon, or we won't be able to do anything to better our lives.

        I stand in Solidarity with Wisconsin.

        by adigal on Tue Mar 29, 2011 at 09:09:03 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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