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View Diary: FL-Gov: Yet another case of buyer's remorse (100 comments)

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  •  Do we know voters vs. non-voters in the election? (15+ / 0-)

    I want the lazy-assed s.o.b.'s who stayed home to cop to what they did to FL by their non-voting.

    I must be dreaming...

    by murphy on Tue Mar 29, 2011 at 01:14:22 PM PDT

    •  Post hoc surveys (4+ / 0-)

      are not necessarily accurately reflective of the way the people really voted, unfortunately.

      Polls that ask about voter participation get a much higher response than actual turnout. Similarly, people are more likely to report having voted for the winner than the actual results would reflect. In this case, maybe people would be less likely to report having voted for Scott.

    •  I did extensive phone banking (40+ / 0-)

      for the 2010 elections in Wisconsin.  Here's what I learned:

      Many stayed home.  They were disappointed that their votes and effort to elect large numbers of Dems and Obama were "wasted" by what they saw as continued Bush policies and corporate influence.  They wanted Wall Street and Banks held accountable for tanking our economy.  They wanted an end to illegal detention, wars, and wiretapping.  Instead, they got ignored and abused.

      Many were inactive.  It was hard to get people to phone bank and canvass.  They were disappointed that their previous work was "for nothing" and for no change.

      Many were not impressed.  I heard over and over again how there was "no difference" between the candidates since they hadn't seen anything other than the Bush policies continued despite hard work sending massive Democratic candidates to Washington and the White House.

      Most were immune.  They told me they were tired of voting against someone and that they were sick of going to the polls based on fear of "the other guy".  They wanted to vote for someone and not just against someone.

      Many were fooled.  They believed the astroturf scary attack ads and believed the aw, schucks Republican "guy in a shirt with rolled up sleeves" ads would not be as horrible as predicted.

      Many thought voting was a waste of their valuable time.  They wanted a return on what they saw as an "investment" and weren't satisfied.

      Dems need to learn a lesson from this.  They need to stand for something, insist upon it, and stop being afraid.  They need to give us a reason to vote for them and not just the typical "we're not as bad as those other guys".  It would make phone banking, recruiting volunteers, and GOTV much more effective.

      There already is class warfare in America. Unfortunately, the rich are winning.

      by Puddytat on Tue Mar 29, 2011 at 01:34:35 PM PDT

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      •  Which is why (11+ / 0-)

        from an EARLY age we must teach children that EVERY election is important.

        As babes in arms they must see their parents and others at the polls. (Another reason I'm not so hot on everybody voting by mail, btw.)

        Which is also why the R's don't want civics taught in schools....

        I must be dreaming...

        by murphy on Tue Mar 29, 2011 at 01:45:43 PM PDT

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        •  A agree (11+ / 0-)

          with that, but a good part of voting is the motivation to vote.  It really is an investment of our time and effort and we deserve to see results.

          Activists will always vote.  Not so much with the rank and file citizen.  Democrats forget that.  They take their base for granted - a big mistake.

          There already is class warfare in America. Unfortunately, the rich are winning.

          by Puddytat on Tue Mar 29, 2011 at 01:48:42 PM PDT

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          •  Progressives are constantly screaming about some (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            murphy, howarddream, Tempus Figits

            politician "fighting for them".   Who would fight for someone who can't be counted on to show up at the polls?  Their unwillingness to do something as simple as casting a vote guarantees that your political ideas won't carry the day.

            "Because I am a river to my people."

            by lordcopper on Tue Mar 29, 2011 at 03:13:59 PM PDT

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            •  It's the chicken and egg argument (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              skohayes, JVolvo, BYw

              I can guarentee that if they delivered people would vote.  I've phone banked and canvassed every election since 1972, so I speak from vast experience.

              There already is class warfare in America. Unfortunately, the rich are winning.

              by Puddytat on Tue Mar 29, 2011 at 03:25:32 PM PDT

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              •  I'm unsure of the relevance of your experiences (0+ / 0-)

                canvassing and phone banking, but one of the reasons Republicans go to such extremes when in power is because they know Democratic constituencies don't vote, and are very susceptible to fracturing.  Even when they do vote, they are only slightly more likely to support Democrats than Republicans.  All of the good "wedge issues" work against Democrats because the Democratic Party is more loosely aligned than the Republican Party.  Given that reality, any politician who doesn't want to be bounced out on his ass tends to "veer right" when in doubt.

                "Because I am a river to my people."

                by lordcopper on Tue Mar 29, 2011 at 03:39:20 PM PDT

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              •  That and $5 will buy me a mocha. (0+ / 0-)

                It hasn't been the case in past elections.  One need go further than the 2010 and the Alan Grayson failing to get re-elected and he did everything that you purport would "guarantee" people would vote for if Democrats would only do.

                A person's character is measured by how they treat everyone. Not just your pet group.

                by Tempus Figits on Tue Mar 29, 2011 at 04:53:06 PM PDT

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      •  I would love to see you (13+ / 0-)

        expand this great comment into a diary.

        I've been active in politics since 1972 (before I was old enough to vote) and I was never so disgusted as I was last November.

        Yes, I did go and vote but I honestly had to force myself -- really the first time I've ever had to do that.

        I knew Barrett and Feingold were going to lose whether I voted or not (those races were easy to call for anyone who understands Wisconsin politics) but I was also a bit worried about Republican challenges to some local seats and didn't want to take the chance that my vote might actually make a difference in those races.

      •  It's almost as if... (10+ / 0-)

        After voting for hope and change, they were a little miffed to get more of the same, on the big, broad issues.

        Gay rights?  More of the same (for 2 years - it's gotten considerably better since the election).

        Economy?  More of the same.  Even the same GDMFs in charge.

        Wars?  More of the same.  Oh, sure, Obama pushed some of the playing pieces around the board, moving them from Iraq to Afghanistan, but it's still the same.

        Spying, torture, black site prisons?  More of the same.

        Executive power expansions?  More of the same.

        Foreign policy?  Oh, hold up a second.  Here there's actually some change, at least on a surface level.  Way less belligerent, for sure.  And way less creepy pawing of the German head of state.  Not a huge deal to the guy who can't feed his kids though, or the woman who can't save her parents from foreclosure.

        Environment?  Too much of the same.  Some progress, but again, this is not an issue that really hits in the gut for most voters.  And for those who really do care, it's either not enough, or that socialist black guy is out to cut off their penis by making their truck more efficient.

        Criminal justice?  More of the same.  Lots more of the same.  No prosecutions for rich people or Republicans.  Persecution of whistleblowers.  Ignoring public corruption.  Ramping up deportations.  Continuing the utterly failed War on (Some) Drugs.

        Energy and other science issues?  More of the same.

        Health Care?  Mandated more of the same private insurance predators.  But did put some reasonable restrictions on just what kind of assholes they can be.  So, better than the last guy, but not really the sort of transformational change we need.

        Education?  More of the same, with a different name.

        Income inequality?  More of the same.

        Letting Republicans and corporations control the debate?  Same as it ever was.

        I sorta get why people weren't thrilled to go pull the lever for these fucking jackasses again.

        "And the President of the United States - would be seated right here. I would be here. And he would be here. I would turn - and there he’d be. I could pet ‘im." - Lewis Black

        by libdevil on Tue Mar 29, 2011 at 02:00:21 PM PDT

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        •  Comment of the week! (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Puddytat, Gabriel D

          You had me at "that socialist black guy is out to cut off their penis by making their truck more efficient."

        •  You forgot to mention... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          tygerwilde

          or, perhaps, chose not to mention it, for whatever disingenuous duplicitous reasons, another thing where we got "more of the same"...a right wing majority in the House and Senate, between the Blue Dogs and the Republicans, despite putative Democratic "Majorities".

          Indeed, that's why little material change was possible, because the right, representing the Chamber of Commerce, had sufficient plurality to block, delay and sabotage all progressive motion, forcing onerous compromises to get even the most inadequate things accomplished.

          So...yeah, that sucks, but the enemy is the Chamber of Commerce, the Republicans, and the Blue Dogs, for being the obstructionist pigs that they are, not Obama and "teh Dems" for having "no spine", "no balls", etc. etc.

          Seems to me such cynical defeatism and demoralization was deliberately promulgated by both the right and substantial elements of the "left', to deliberately suppress likely Democratic voter turnout, to considerable effect.

          Democracy is the most fundamental revolutionary principle. Information is the ultimate key.

          by Radical def on Tue Mar 29, 2011 at 11:52:45 PM PDT

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      •  I wish I could rec this comment a (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Puddytat

        1000 times.

        If there is no accountability for those who authorized torture, we can no longer say that we are a nation of laws, not men.

        by MikePhoenix on Tue Mar 29, 2011 at 02:21:18 PM PDT

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      •  Thank you!!! (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Puddytat, MrJayTee

        I'm so tired of the Bad Democrats who didn't vote meme.  For corn's sake, Obama gets swept into office running on Hope and Change, and pulls a good chunk of Congress with him, and what happens?  they sit on their hands and whine about the filibuster.  I'm sorry we have a Republican house now, but for heaven's sake, what the hell did the Democrats  expect?  That the tea baggers would stay home if they didn't do too much to upset them?  That sure worked out well.

        •  "A good chunk", but yet and still, insufficient... (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          howarddream, Tempus Figits

          The real politik was that despite the putative Democratic "Majorities", the Republicans and Blue Dogs retained sufficient plurality to block, delay and sabotage all progressive motion.

          It was Not about "sitting on their hands and whine", having no spine, or no balls, yada, yada, yada, it was about not quite having a real majority yet, in terms of sufficient plurality to run roughshod over the Republicans.

          Indeed, it was a mad scramble, as I recall, for just a FEW VOTES, on any given issue.  

          The power was hanging by a thread, and ours to seize, in 2010, if not for the cynical defeatism and demoralization deliberately promulgated by both the right and the "left", in a cacaphonic chorus of unprincipled, opportunist, subjective hyperbolic opportunist jive...which it would seem, did ultimately serve to suppress likely Democratic voter turnout.

          Democracy is the most fundamental revolutionary principle. Information is the ultimate key.

          by Radical def on Tue Mar 29, 2011 at 03:03:54 PM PDT

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          •  Baloney (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            NM Ward Chair

            If the Dems did what they did in the Lame Duck session before the election, the outcome would have been entirely different.  It was utterly foolish for them to wait until the lame duck.

            They reaped what they sowed and while blaming independents and democrats for staying home is a good talking point, it doesn't replace the truth.

            There already is class warfare in America. Unfortunately, the rich are winning.

            by Puddytat on Tue Mar 29, 2011 at 03:29:01 PM PDT

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            •  Ah, but you ignore and replace truth (0+ / 0-)

              of the real politik of the actual relative right/left plurality of the putative "Majorities"...with your jive "analysis" that they woulda coulda shoulda exercised a "Majority" that they didn't Even really have, lol.

              THAT is the real baloney.

              The correct analysis and line in that situation was to blame the Republicans (and Blue Dogs) for their obstructionism, rather than to attack Obama and "teh Dems" for not having sufficient plurality, quite yet, to crush the right.

              A concerted campaign from the left, in all the blogs, and on the streets, and at every opportunity on mass media, against Republican and Blue Dog intransigence, could have and would have mobilized the masses to finish the job in 2010 that had not yet quite been accomplished in '08.

              But, no...too many people were determined to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory, and subjectively insisted on helping the Republicans to suppress likely Democratic voter turnout, largely due to ulterior motives, seeking to promulgate electoral boycott and splitting sentiments at any cost, to their own perceived sectarian weaseling anti-Democratic benefit.

              Democracy is the most fundamental revolutionary principle. Information is the ultimate key.

              by Radical def on Tue Mar 29, 2011 at 04:08:59 PM PDT

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            •  But the only reason (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Tempus Figits, Radical def

              we had those votes in the lame duck was because the Democrats allowed the tax breaks for the wealthy to pass (we also got unemployment extensions and middle class tax cuts extended).
              Then they got moderate republicans to vote for things like repealing DADT.

              How come the dove gets to be the peace symbol? How about the pillow? It has more feathers than the dove and doesn't have that dangerous beak. Jack Handey

              by skohayes on Tue Mar 29, 2011 at 04:11:59 PM PDT

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            •  <!--defang_cough-->Grayson (0+ / 0-)

              n/t

              A person's character is measured by how they treat everyone. Not just your pet group.

              by Tempus Figits on Tue Mar 29, 2011 at 04:55:40 PM PDT

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      •  Well, the "Many" You List Can Go F@#K Themselves. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        FiredUpInCA

        How do they like what they have now?

        They enabled these clowns back in 2010.

        Now they're reaping what they've sewn.

        I miss Speaker Pelosi :^(

        by howarddream on Tue Mar 29, 2011 at 03:23:28 PM PDT

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      •  top commented n/t (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Puddytat

        Silence is the voice of Complicity.

        by brillig on Tue Mar 29, 2011 at 06:55:09 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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