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View Diary: Instapundit Makes Stuff Up Too (184 comments)

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  •  I disagree (none)
    that our containment policy of the USSR had no effect on the implosion of communism.  Up until the late 1970's the USSR actually experienced better economic growth than we did.

    But another point is that our intelligence agencies were set up, and their mission was defined during Stalin's reign.   I am fully aware that Krushchev repudiated Stalin.  He also came to this country and said "We will bury you", which was undiplomatic to say the least.

    Furthermore, post-Stalin Russia was less genocidal but no less oppressive.  Freedom of religion was restricted, freedom of speech was restricted, freedom to travel was restricted, basically everything we value was banned or curtailed.

    As for Mao, his genocidal tendencies never abated and were probably at their worst in the 60's.

    There is no reason to believe that Iran or Iraq or Saudi Arabia would have been better off under Communist tutelage than they were under American and British tutelage.

    The question is: if we had not set up our Cold War apparatus to dominate the source of our energy supplies, would the USSR have done so instead?

    I believe they would have.  But if you don't think so, please explain.

    Coming attractions...Get ready for the great unveiling of the next great Scoop site: http://www.boomantribune.com

    by BooMan23 on Thu Mar 03, 2005 at 09:13:15 AM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  So Far Off-Topic (none)
      Nice factoids, but I'm trying to see the relevance in most of them.

      Anyhow, back the main crux of what you were saying is that our control of the middle east is better than what the USSR would have put up:  

      How can you assume any communist regime would be like Stalin's?  He was dead in '53.  IF his predecessors did move to control the Mid-east, AND they eventually didn't fall under the weight of their economy, how can you assume they would have done worse for the region that what we have?

      Consider some of the guys we've put in power or supported: Saddam, Pinochet, Papa Doc, Suharto, the Shah, the Taliban, Marcos, Karimov...etc..  And that justifies our military actions that have killed how many?

      I don't like to harp on the bad deeds of the U.S., but you're attacking this guy for being critical, and with rhetoric that sounds like the neocons.  

      •  Against this list of shame (none)
        you should also take note of the current political structures of Eastern Europe and Latin America.

        As for the USSR, I don't see an enormous amount of improvement in post-Stalin Russia.  Yes, they did not repeat atrocities like the deliberate famine in the Ukraine or the mass re-location of Chechens...

        ...but the political and economic freedoms of their people was horrendous.  I believe that the USSR would have and could have expanded their political ideology into whatever proxy states they acquired.  

        And if they had been able to strike the same type of deal with the Saudis that we struck, I believe that their economy could have lasted many decades longer than it did.

        Moreover, they would have probably emerged as the most powerful country on Earth.

        But this is all hypothetical.  The main point is that we didn't fight the Cold War for no reason.  And it is simple minded to blame America for every death that occurred in one of proxy states, while neglecting to contemplate what the likely alternatives were to our having proxy states at all.

        In my opinion, these states would have been proxies to the Soviets (as Syria and Egypt were)if they were not our proxies.

        This is not an endorsement of our Cold War strategy in the Muslim world, but merely an acknowledgment that the region was a Cold War battlefield, and that on balance we were the good guys in that fight.

        Coming attractions...Get ready for the great unveiling of the next great Scoop site: http://www.boomantribune.com

        by BooMan23 on Thu Mar 03, 2005 at 11:47:20 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

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