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View Diary: Why do people come to the US? (57 comments)

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  •  Instead of brain draining poor countries (5+ / 0-)

    that need this talent, how about we reform our educational system? Personally, ever since Hurricane Katrina, I've just seen no reason to stay in this country...as much as I love New Orleans.

    Kto przeżyje wolnym będzie, kto umiera, wolny już!

    by bozepravde15 on Tue Apr 05, 2011 at 12:40:24 AM PDT

    •  The U.S. graduates more highly (5+ / 0-)

      skilled workers than the job market can absorb.  The U.S. higher education is the best in the world.

      Home grown talent is not the problem.  Indentured foreign workers beholden to their employer are the driving force for employment based immigration in the U.S.  

      Education is not the problem.

      •  yep (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Mariken, LegendClick, IT Professional

        we have seen the freakin video of the conference that show US employers how to create job openings with such arcane requirements that basically NOONE can fill them, then they can go and get H1B Visa etc type workers for half price.

        SO many companies have job opening with requirements that make it seem that you have to be a rocket scientist to do it, when in fact monkeys can do these jobs.

        Bad is never good until worse happens

        by dark daze on Tue Apr 05, 2011 at 08:35:59 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Education is the problem (0+ / 0-)

        People like me, who don't have money, cannot afford education in this country. If we could make education affordable for the people in the inner city, like me, we would be a lot better off. If you don't think the educational system in this country needs reform, you are quite ignorant. Of course, I've seen more people than I'd like to on Daily Kos who talk the talk when it comes to the disadvantaged in this country, but certainly don't walk the walk.

        Kto przeżyje wolnym będzie, kto umiera, wolny już!

        by bozepravde15 on Tue Apr 05, 2011 at 01:32:43 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I had no money as a poor immigrant and I (0+ / 0-)

          got a nearly free college education in the worst inner city neighborhood of New York City.  I even received grants due to being so poor.   If I could do it, so can you.

          What exactly would you change about the  U.S. higher educational system?

          •  It needs to be more affordable (0+ / 0-)

            there are such massive disparities in this country. I guarantee you that the money for kids in cities like New Orleans, where I still have a large amount of family and lived for a while, is nearly non-existent, especially compared to New York. Same for cities like Memphis, Cleveland, Los Angeles, Orlando etc. Luckily, I live in Boston, where there are decent opportunities. Unfortunately, colleges here are famous for being expensive, and despite getting into colleges like Suffolk and Boston University, even with financial aid there simply was no way I could afford to go to school. Even state colleges are increasingly out of reach, financially. And "If I could do it, so can you" is always a bullshit thing to say, excuse my French. The educational system in this country doesn't work for 90% of poor kids, and increasingly for the middle class as well. Sure, maybe you were one of the 10% who were able to make it, and good for you for being able to. But in no way does one story of success reflect on the broken educational system for millions of kids of all races and backgrounds.

            Kto przeżyje wolnym będzie, kto umiera, wolny już!

            by bozepravde15 on Tue Apr 05, 2011 at 03:57:52 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Poor people can go to college (0+ / 0-)

              practically free.  How much cheaper do you want it.

              Middle class kids have a harder time due to income limits on most need scholarships.

              By the way, everyone does not need to go to an IVY league college.

              Even for middle class kids who cannot get needs based scholarships, CLEP self study courses cost  $70 per exam and the study material is free on the internet. CLEPs are accepted at all U.S. universities in lieu of course work. You can have almost half of your studies just with CLEPs.  This is just one example of where there is a will there is a way.

              Another way is to take courses at cheap community colleges and have the credits transferred to a more prestigious college, if that's what you want behind your name.

              The original point is that there are no guarantees of a job after getting a college degree.  In fact, we are graduating more college graduates than there are jobs to absorb them, so insisting that we need to make college degrees more accessible to people who will not be able to use them to get employed is insane.

              •  The fact you said (0+ / 0-)

                Poor people can go to college practically free.  How much cheaper do you want it.

                Tells me you're either extraordinarily out of touch at the lack of opportunities for the poor, or that you're not really from a poor background.

                Kto przeżyje wolnym będzie, kto umiera, wolny już!

                by bozepravde15 on Tue Apr 05, 2011 at 07:07:46 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  I stand by the statement (0+ / 0-)

                  in the U.S.  a poor person can go to college for practically free.  The poorer you are, the more options the financial aid offices at every college will have for you.

                  At one point I was practically homeless for a couple of weeks, showering in the gym at my college and sleeping during the day in the lounge.

                  If you yourself are a poor person you are just looking for an excuse not to pursue a college education.  A tight job market would be a better excuse, because cost is not a factor for a poor person.

                  But you ignore the fact that there are many college graduates who are having trouble finding work.  What would more college graduates do in such a tight job market.

    •  The Asian brain drain is reversing (0+ / 0-)

      See my comment up-tread.

      The US still skims much of the cream of the crop but the overall rate of students remainig at end of visa is declining.

      IT is a possible exception, but even there, the rise of regional software R+D in emerging markets (verses backend office services) attracts an increasing number of grads an sometimes offers then higher level jobs since they have language skills in demand that American students may lack.

      Regardless of home country, the biggest winners in the future are likely to be those students with international experience and multilingual skills.

      I think the diarist has some biased data and preconeptions at work.

      What might be a more importiant indicator that the division between the US and Europe may be the global demographics including the overseas employment by repatriated nations in multinational corporations.

      European Multinationals are very big in Asia and some of the most sought after jobs because of the stability, pay and training.

      What about my Daughter's future?

      by koNko on Tue Apr 05, 2011 at 06:30:33 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Oh, I certainly have preconceptions (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Mariken

        ... but I don't know that my data is biased. You're welcome to check it and tell me what's skewed.  As I pointed out, the US has some heavy advantages in attracting immigrants:

        • English is spoken in the US
        • The US has a single set of immigration laws as opposed to 27 sets in the EU
        • You often get paid more money in the US
        • There are some easier immigration options for the US (though this is highly variable depending on the country you're comparing against)

        Those were my key points and I generally didn't see people contest those (though they sometimes claimed other factors were at work). Perhaps my selection of data is biased (which is bad), but I'm unsure that the itself is.

        •  I think what you could look at (0+ / 0-)

          If you can find the data, is the ratio of foreign students in various countries that remain after graduation.

          I atually agree with most of your observations but what I think is missing is the trends.

          Some of this is hard to track such as the numberof grads that are recruited in their host countris but are assigned to work in their home country or region.

          This is particularly a trend in developing markets such as Asia where there is now a serious shortage of skilled labor with bilingual/cutural skills to bridge the gap.

          What about my Daughter's future?

          by koNko on Tue Apr 05, 2011 at 06:03:56 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

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