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View Diary: Marginal comments and signal-to-noise... (105 comments)

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  •  Bogus. (2.27)
    I cannot believe I'm reading a diary saying people shouldn't feel free to comment on a thread if they don't have something more than "I agree" to say.

    Are you always such a dick?

    Resistance to tyranny is obedience to God.-Thomas Jefferson
    We are the resistance.

    by boadicea on Wed Mar 02, 2005 at 03:33:22 PM PST

    •  Oh yeah (4.00)
      Your insulting comment just cost Kos another $0.10 (or something).  

      Ever get the feeling you've been cheated?

      by johnny rotten on Wed Mar 02, 2005 at 03:34:16 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  It's not that people shouldn't feel free (3.66)
      It's that it really is a waste and hurts the signal-noise ratio, making the community more difficult to use.  Page-downing through scores of "I agree" comments while looking for the few comments with insight grows tiring.  If that makes me a "dick", so be it, though I think the name calling is unnecessary as I'm really just trying to provide constructive criticism.
      •  What makes the community more difficult to use (3.50)
        It's that it really is a waste and hurts the signal-noise ratio, making the community more difficult to use.

         are the eternal, multi comment pissing contests. (this thread, for instance, is almost entirely pissing contests) 'I agree's' do not strike me as much of a problem.  
        I wish that those involved in pissing contests would learn to limit their exchanges to three posts each or something like that. Take it to email if that's not good enough.
        You're not nearly as much of a dick in this diary as you were in the 'sexism' diary. Hope that helps.

        "...the definition of a gaffe in Washington is somebody who tells the truth but shouldn't have." Howard Dean

        by colleen on Wed Mar 02, 2005 at 05:52:25 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  But who are you (none)
        to be the ultimate arbiter of what comments merit being expressed and which don't?  I'm sorry, but I find that a pretty off-putting attitude to take about an online community which grows strength with the continuous addition of new users who may or may not initially conform to your commenting guidelines.

        It's one thing for Markos to gently remind folks to begin attempting to conserve bandwidth if in fact this is a technical concern; it's quite another for a user to catch attitude about having to scroll through comments which he finds useless.

        I personally had no issue scrolling through the myriad "good work n/t" comments which dotted the GannonGate diaries; nor did I have issue with the "I agree" comments which peppered Georgia10's excellent diary about the Republican perspective.  I can only hope that newer users didn't happen onto your diary only to be dismayed by your content-policing.

        Sorry, dude, you are off base here.

      •  Perhaps that is the cost (none)
        of engaging in a free flow of ideas with tens of thousands of other people...hmmm...sometimes, you are not going to find all of their ideas and comments useful.  If this is tiring, retire to your own blogs where you can choose to police content to suit your particular tastes.  Thanks for potentially scaring off some newer users with your intimidating content policing; I'm sure the progressive cause has thus benefited.
    •  Dick? (4.00)
      Chill out.

      I agree with this diary utterly.

      I was tempted to write it myself a few weeks ago.  It's nice that people want to participate, but really, having a conversation and learning are at least as important as that lovely feeling of participation people get from going 'whoo hoo!'

      Look at the RW blogs: they're almost all whoo-hoo comments.  Why?  Because those people can't think.

      Just going whoo-hoo is fine, but it's not what we're supposed to be good at.

      we gonna smash their brains in / cause they ain´t got nofink in ´em -- Linton Kwesi Johnson

      by Karl the Idiot on Wed Mar 02, 2005 at 03:38:12 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I'm totally chilled. (4.00)
        Disbelief has that effect on me.

        Let's recap.

        This is a big site. Takes money to run. That's why blog ads are there, and subscriptions are available. I haven't seen Kos mention that finances are getting tight, so I'm going to say costs are being covered  is a reasonable assumption.

        There are several different ways to view comments. They can be sorted  or sliced and diced any number of ways to maximize the reader's convenience and speed of connection.

        One of the baselines in a large, heavily trafficed site is that you're going to get a lot of posts to manage.

        And there are all levels of readers and commenters in the 30 or 40k members here. Some of them will be a bit shy about chiming in when there are so many prolific posters, unsure about what they have to offer in the dialog.

        I can recall several posters who've expressed that concern and written very moving, intelligent, inspiring posts once they built up enough courage to wade in.

        This diary, with it's assumption that short comments that let a poster get their toe in the conversational water, so to speak, are a waste of  time, bandwidth, and money, can have the effect if not the intention of running those people off.

        I've run and am running much smaller communities, I'll grant, but the one thing I cannot abide is one poster or group of posters having the gall to tell some other group that what they have to say isn't worth the time to read. So, this diary hits a hot button for me, but I mean every word I'm typing here.

        Skip it. Scroll down. Use the tools of this site, including the hot list and several other really quite impressive programming options to maximize your use of the blog rather than insisting that others should minimize theirs.

        Troll rate me if you like, though my record will certainly show I'm no more a troll than Aaron is, but I stand by assuming dick-like behaviour comes from a dick. Hopefully, only a temporary one.

        Resistance to tyranny is obedience to God.-Thomas Jefferson
        We are the resistance.

        by boadicea on Wed Mar 02, 2005 at 04:21:06 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Excellent reply (none)
          Although you don't need me to tell you that.

          What you say is convincing, but it doesn't dispell my iritation at having to wade through one (100) too many hi-five or 'group hug' equivalents in long threads.  I know DailyKos comments are better managed that the totally useless comments at Eschaton, but still.

          I'll have to think a little more about this.

          we gonna smash their brains in / cause they ain´t got nofink in ´em -- Linton Kwesi Johnson

          by Karl the Idiot on Wed Mar 02, 2005 at 04:26:36 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I'm not immune to the irritation, either. (none)
            And, I'm sorry for my part in turning this into a flamefest. I'll try to restrain my vocabulary a bit more in future.

            It's a challenge to balance the signal to noise ratio, no question. I just don't think the answer is shutting newer voices down when they may be absolutely essential additions to the "choir" with a little drawing out.

            Resistance to tyranny is obedience to God.-Thomas Jefferson
            We are the resistance.

            by boadicea on Wed Mar 02, 2005 at 04:33:12 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  With all the fighting (none)
            The issue has got burried deep, but I'd just like to add that extraneous comments can seriously slow down Kos for users of older computers, and people with dial up service. In all the ranting about how this diary author wants to restrict people's speech, maybe we could try to remember there are people who might not be so well served by one line comments that say essentially nothing.

            How much will you lose with Bush's Social Security plan? Click to find out.

            by Goldfish on Wed Mar 02, 2005 at 04:34:03 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  That's were some of the other programming (none)
              options for viewing come in.

              I went through various combinations before I settled on the most effective one for me.

              When there are 250-500 comments, that doesn't help much. Then again, I submit not much will at that level. And I don't think the percentage of feelgood responses is as high as all that. (Not all one liners are fluff, after all.) I'd have to see some quantitative analysis to accept that premise.

              And talk about a makework task-that would be a textbook case.

              Resistance to tyranny is obedience to God.-Thomas Jefferson
              We are the resistance.

              by boadicea on Wed Mar 02, 2005 at 04:47:21 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

          •  you should come to my diaries then... (4.00)
            ... no one is agreeing, everyone is like, "what the fuck... what did he --- huh?  where am I, how did I get here...?"
      •  Heh (none)
        The single comment of mine that by far got the most 4s ever for me was basically "woohoo!".  So you can't necessarily take something like that out of context, as the context in that case was apparently appropriate.  
      •  mega-dittos! (none)
        (sorry :))
      •  My issue is (none)
        that we've already seen the power of this online community which makes tens of thousands of people living in disparate locations feel as if they are actively contributing to the progressive cause.   This feeling has tangible results with respect to the power of the grassroots, as we have seen. Is it really worth scaring "whoo-hoo" folks away merely because others who don't care for such comments have to engage in the strenuous activity of scrolling down a web page?  Sorry, but I'd say good riddance to content policing comment purists in favor of scores of new users any day!

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