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View Diary: Fighting Dems: Bareknuckled Politics (242 comments)

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  •  Well (4.00)
    you try that. I'll keep doing what I'm doing.

    "Just say no to torture." -Semi-Anonymous Blogger.

    by Armando on Wed Mar 02, 2005 at 06:37:49 PM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  Love, love, love (4.00)
      Love is all you need.

      Heh, I'm not mocking GrannyHelen.  I know what's in her heart.  It's in mine too.  I want to win a different way than they do.  But, the fighting part, I'm with you.  I want to fight with smarts, not love.  Outsmart them, outmock them, outoutrage them, outdo them, UNDO THEM!

      "But your flag decal won't get you into heaven anymore"--Prine

      by Cathy on Wed Mar 02, 2005 at 07:22:49 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  You know (4.00)
          their yellow ribbon bumber magnets say "freedom isn't free" and they are right but not the way they think.  If you want to be free from poverty in your old age you better fight like hell.  And if you want to be free from a suckass job that has no protections and hardly pays a decent wage you gotta fight like hell.  And if you want to be free to decide when and where and how you'll have your babies you'll have to fight like hell.  And if you want to be free from discrimination and intolerance well, you better get ready to fight like hell.  

          Nothing that we have ever gotten to improve our lives was "given" to us.  We fought for independence, we fought for abolition, the 8-hour day, unions, Social Security, civil rights, integrated Major League Baseball, Roe v Wade people fought, people were attacked, people fought back, and sometimes we win.  And then we have to fight to keep the gains we've made.  Like Armando I'm fighting because I've been forced to fight.  Venceneremos!

        "My will is easy to decide, for I have nothing to divide" Joe Hill

        by slick riddles on Wed Mar 02, 2005 at 07:35:40 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  We've had it (4.00)
          easy for too long.  I think we began to take our rights for granted.  Well, that time is past.  We've already been attacked.  I've found I get more respect from their types by knowing my facts and fighting back.  I've not yet had one be able to trump me.  Funny how the facts work.

          Speaking the truth in times of universal deceit is a revolutionary act. - Orwell

          by TracieLynn on Wed Mar 02, 2005 at 08:44:12 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  i agree on this one (none)
          no fucking slack...  we shouldn't yield an inch to anything that compromises the ideals of the democratic party or the progressive movement. A few weeks ago I was watching a young democratic operative on one of the pundit shows and he consistently molded the argument using the word progressive.  As in progressives believe "X", and so on.  The announcer then said something like,"don't you describe yourself as a liberal?", to which he replied yes but then managed in the next 30 seconds to throw out 3 more beliefs of progressive ideals adding in the word "progressive" a bunch of times.

          Lets bring back to the forefront all of the good progressive things that the DNP has fought for over the years.  We are for "progress" as any good democratic nation should be.  Let's not forget it.  A nation that does not progress will die a slow and painful death.

    •  Love ya too, Armando :-) (4.00)
      And this one's for you...

      You can say I'm a dreamer
      But I'm not the only one
      I hope some day you can join us
      And the world will be as one

      Come on and sing kum-bay-ah with me!

      "It is no longer a choice, my friends, between violence and nonviolence. It is either nonviolence or nonexistence." Martin Luther King, Jr.

      by grannyhelen on Wed Mar 02, 2005 at 07:34:50 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I Love all a yas (none)
        You say that you think you know
        The meaning of love
        You say love is all we need
        You say
        With your love you can change
        All of the fools
        All of the hate
        I think you're probably
        Out to lunch
        Oh no
        I don't believe it
        You say that you think you know
        The meaning of love
        Do you really think it can be told?
        You say that you really know
        I think
        You should check it again
        How can you say
        What you believe
        Will be the key to a
        World of love?

        All your love -
        Will it save me?
        All your love -
        Will it save the world
        From what we can't understand
        Oh no
        I don't believe it

        -Zappa

        Might and Right are always fighting In our youth it seems exciting. Right is always nearly winning. Might can hardly keep from grinning. -Clarence D

        by Myrkury on Wed Mar 02, 2005 at 08:05:31 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  4 for a Zappa song! (none)
          Although I have to admit that "Yellow Snow" is one of my favorites...

          "It is no longer a choice, my friends, between violence and nonviolence. It is either nonviolence or nonexistence." Martin Luther King, Jr.

          by grannyhelen on Wed Mar 02, 2005 at 08:14:58 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  "Suzy..... (4.00)
            Suzy Creamcheese..."

            The first duty of a revolutionary is to get away with it.. Abbie Hoffman

            by meagert on Wed Mar 02, 2005 at 08:31:19 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

              •  Oh my, that gets a four... (none)
                ... on so many levels! Verrrrry clever, but of course Zappa attracts the most discerning fans :-)

                One of my favorite Zappa songs is I Am the Slime...

                ... I am the tool of the government, and industry too
                For I am destined to rule and regulate you.

                ========
                -highacidity-

                by highacidity on Wed Mar 02, 2005 at 10:11:32 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

              •  Now THAT'S Funny (none)
                Help I'm Iraq, help I'm Iraq, help I'm Iraq!
                Ahahahahahahaaa
                Help I'm Iraq, help I'm Iraq, help I'm Iraq!
                Somebody, please, please!
                Help I'm Iraq, help I'm Iraq...
                Wow man, it's a drag being Iraq
                Help I'm Iraq...
                I wish I was anything but Iraq...

                [...]

                It can't happen here
                It can't happen here
                I'm telling you, my dear
                That it can't happen here
                Because I been checkin' it out, baby
                I checked it out a couple a times, hmmmmmmmm
                And I'm telling you
                It can't happen here
                Oh darling, it's important that you believe me
                (bop bop bop bop)
                That it can't happen here

                Who could imagine that they would freak out somewhere in kansas...
                Kansas kansas tototototodo
                Kansas kansas tototototodo
                Kansas kansas
                Who could imagine that they would freak out in minnesota...
                Mimimimimimimi minnesota, minnesota, minnesota
                Who could imagine...

                Who could imagine
                That they would freak out in washington, d.c.
                D.c. d.c. d.c. d.c. d.c.
                It can't happen here
                Ba ba ba ba ba ba ba ba
                It can't happen here
                It can't happen here...

    •  asdf (4.00)
      The two tactics aren't mutually exclusive.

      "I have lived with several Zen masters -- all of them cats." - Eckhart Tolle

      by catnip on Wed Mar 02, 2005 at 11:40:07 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Armando (4.00)
      I think you may have missed a point when the word 'love' was brought into the discussion. You replied that grannyhelen could use that tactic and that you would just keep doing what you're doing, implying that love doesn't enter into your strategy. Well, I think you're wrong and here's why.

      When you made diary after diary, post after post, argument after argument against Alberto Gonzales, you did it out of love. Love for your country. Love for humanity that should never suffer at the hands of torturers, love for the expression of true democracy, love for a nation that has slipped into the abyss of shame through the actions of a reckless government, love for your family and their future that they will live in a country in which every human being is valued, in which every human being has the rights afforded to them in the Constitution and in all international treaties relative to the proper conduct of mankind.

      That's how those of us who are driven by love operate against those who seek to destroy what we hold dearly in life. We fight fiercely and perhaps some of us fight more quietly than you do at times, but, never mistake that quietness as a lack of passion or an inability to change or destroy what must be defeated.

      We may wear our love and compassion on our sleeves, but we are no less concerned or effective by doing so. We may differ in our approaches, but we can and have been enthusiastic participants in setting things right. We are all coming from the same place and recognizing, appreciating, and accepting that diversity of appearances and tactics is what keeps organizations from becoming stagnant.

      You're not so far removed from some of us as you may think you are.

      Lets not employ the plan of the opposition and divide ourselves into ideological camps. We all want the same thing and by working together, we can get there. That requires unity - not of actions or strategies necessarily, but unity of purpose. That's what counts. We need to use our diversity in this community and not make it into a battleground issue of 'us vs. them' on this very blog.

      "I have lived with several Zen masters -- all of them cats." - Eckhart Tolle

      by catnip on Thu Mar 03, 2005 at 12:25:27 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

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