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View Diary: 150 Years Ago Today - Letters to/from Bubba (13 comments)

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  •  A war to end slavery (2+ / 0-)
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    US Blues, dotsright

    Yes, that's what it did.  The North did that by winning the war.  You acknowledge that even as you insinuate that no side was more right than the other.

    Lincoln tried like hell to avoid the war.  He knew, like many others, especially in the South, that slavery would eventually be a minority position as westward expansion added non-slave states.  That's the impending pressure the South felt when they started the war.  Yes, they started it.  To defend their right to own slaves.  Well, the right of a handful of rich southerners anyway.  So they started it and it was impossible to end it until they were completely dominated and defeated.  Which is what the North, eventually, committed to doing after hundreds of thousands of lives were lost.  

    I'm sorry, but there is no equivalency there.  I don't accept this smearing of Lincoln for "calculated brutality,' in winning a war that he did so much to avoid and first tried to win on the battlefield.  Witness Lincoln's, and Grant's, immediate efforts at allowing the South to save face as much as possible and be treated humanely at the end of such a brutal conflict.  There is too much humanity there.  I don't accept these smears.  

    You're applying the all too common, modern fallacy of Fair and Balanced here.  It may seem to package these events in a wise way bit it's not accurate or truly fair.  

    •  sherman's march to the south (0+ / 0-)

      calculated brutality.  The first of America's humane war enders, based on demanding nothing except total abject surrender, a total departure from the practice of the rest of humanity.  

      "The politics of failure have failed. We must make them work again." - an alien

      by Marcion on Wed Apr 13, 2011 at 08:06:26 AM PDT

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      •  Sherman's March to the Sea (0+ / 0-)

        is what it's referred to.  

        Yes, it was horrendous.  But Lincoln didn't unleash Sherman out of some tyrannical desire.  After years of war his desire was to end the war as quickly as possible in the view that prolonging it in any way would ultimately have a higher human cost.  It was like cauterizing a wound.  His own journals and recorded words attest to his view on this.  

        I'm not going to defend all the actions of Sherman's soldiers in that campaign.  But to point to it as some imagined proof of Lincoln's monstrosity is just wrong.  

        And, I'm sorry, but this is just f-ing ridiculous.

        demanding nothing except total abject surrender, a total departure from the practice of the rest of humanity.  

        The thing still so celebrated in the South is the 'spirit' of the Confederacy.  Even after Lee surrendered, many of his starving men pleaded to go on.  Surrender was necessary to end the thing and get on with Lincoln's hoped for reconstruction.  Where does demanding surrender from an enemy in war become a "total departure from the rest of humanity?"  What in the world are you talking about?  

        It's fine that you don't know much about this subject.  But you shouldn't then go on to publicly preach about it in such an arrogant manner.  

        •  demanidng unconditional surrender (0+ / 0-)

          without offering terms, or guaranteeing some conditions to the defeated party, is pretty rate in history, America's insistence on unconditional surrender from its opponents is an outgrowth of the history of Indian Wars in which the losers were entirely subjugated and left powerless.  

          And Lincoln's willingness to wage total war on his own fellow Americans is all the proof of monstrosity I need.  One only has to point to the long chain of his predecessors who pulled back from forcing the issue of slavery, or to read the shocked reaction of his contemporaries to his drastic actions, such as the imposition of martial law, and the  use of force against New Yorkers resisting the draft in order to prevent violence to understand how much more radical Lincoln was than the norm in his day.

          "The politics of failure have failed. We must make them work again." - an alien

          by Marcion on Thu Apr 14, 2011 at 12:48:20 AM PDT

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