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View Diary: The Tea Party's Neoconfederacy Fights the Civil War (Again) (81 comments)

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  •  Lincoln did propose compensated emancipation (9+ / 0-)
    Message to Congress Recommending Compensated Emancipation.

    March 6, 1862

    FELLOW-CITIZENS OF THE SENATE AND HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES:--I recommend the adoption of a joint resolution by your honorable bodies which shall be substantially as follows:

    "Resolved, That the United States ought to co-operate with any State which may adopt gradual abolishment of slavery, giving to such State pecuniary aid, to be used by such State, in its discretion, to compensate for the inconveniences, public and private, produced by such change of system."

    Lincoln explained:

    In the mere financial or pecuniary view, any member of Congress with the census tables and treasury reports before him can readily see for himself how very soon the current expenditures of this war would purchase, at fair valuation, all the slaves in any named State. Such a proposition on the part of the General Government sets up no claim of a right by Federal authority to interfere with slavery within State limits, referring, as it does, the absolute control of the subject in each case to the State and its people immediately interested. It is proposed as a matter of perfectly free choice with them.

    Pres. Lincoln felt that the more northern rebel states could be persuaded to buy out of the slavery system in this way, although he expected the Gulf states to remain slaveholding.

    One editorialist wrote:

    The extreme South, in the supposition raised by Mr. LINCOLN that Slavery will there retain all its vitality, will compete with the North in the purchase of the discarded labor; and must of necessity offer prices which the North will be unable to pay. When peace shall be restored -- always assuming the President to be right in regard to Slavery in the Gulf States -- Kentucky will be able to get $130,000,000 for her negroes at the South, while the North, presupposing the round price of $200 -- the highest rate heretofore named, and considered practicable -- would be able to offer only one-third of that amount.

    Doing the math there, there were about 200,000 slaves in Kentucky alone, and the open market price was $600.

    Other sources put the total number of slaves in the rebel states at 4 million.

    •  I think the gravamen of this is that Ron Paul's (15+ / 0-)

      criticism of Lincoln is exactly incorrect -- Lincoln tried mightily to avoid the Civil War.  But the secessionists were going to secede, come what may.  It really was about their obsessive desire to continue a culture based on slavery.  They identified themselves in that way.

      So Paul is simply using the Civil War as a foil for his own fuddiduddy libertarian ideas.

      An imbalance between the rich and poor is the oldest and most fatal ailment of all republics - Plutarch

      by Leftwing Noise Machine on Tue Apr 19, 2011 at 06:25:43 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Agreed (4+ / 0-)

        The upshot is that if the border states really wanted to just sell out of slavery, they could have done so in the open market in the South at any time. But they didn't. So was the federal government supposed to pay even more for slaves than the open market to entice them to give up the slave system? The whole argument is ridiculous.

        •  It was developed by the Von Mises institutte (Paul (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          sowsearsoup

          was parroting their "market solution" to the Civil War").  More evidence how conservative/libertarians always use the wrong model to understand historical events.

          I sincerely doubt Ron Paul ever read any other history than the once cooked up in rightwing think tanks.  He seems to be of the Bush/Rumsfeld school, which revels in the fact that they don't read things.

          An imbalance between the rich and poor is the oldest and most fatal ailment of all republics - Plutarch

          by Leftwing Noise Machine on Tue Apr 19, 2011 at 06:41:18 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Remember the Pentagon shooter last year? (4+ / 0-)

            He was a disturbed individual who rambled about von Mises and had an email address at mises.com. One snippet from his plan to somehow make marijuana-backed currency:

            This is a way of associating the work of Ludwig von Mises with financial value, which may be a tool to implement his ideas in reality. I hope someday to see full-reserve banking and observance of Article One, Section 10 of the US Constitution.
            •  Good one. It seems the mentaly deficient (4+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              jmknapp, blindyone, unclebucky, nathguy

              are attracted to the libertarian model with its backward casuality (traffic lights cause traffic; currency causes inflation).

              I'd note that the Jared Loughner, the Tuson assassin, was deeply into the tax protest world, which is loosely tied to von Mises and libertarianism.  Of course the lazy mainstream media dropped that political hot potato quicker than Michele Bachman can say Iwo Jima.

              An imbalance between the rich and poor is the oldest and most fatal ailment of all republics - Plutarch

              by Leftwing Noise Machine on Tue Apr 19, 2011 at 07:03:15 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  Marijuana backed currency? (0+ / 0-)

              Someone needs to re-watch Dazed and Confused.  ("There's some funky shit going on with the dollar bill.  And it's green, man!")

              "This world demands the qualities of youth: not a time of life but a state of mind[.]" -- Robert F. Kennedy

              by Loge on Wed Apr 20, 2011 at 07:12:18 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

      •  would slavery have ended in the south? (0+ / 0-)

        Say the south had seceded more or less peacefully.

        And that by 1867 a detente and terms had been worked out.

        Peaceful transit of the Mississippi was guaranteed,

        no foreign military bases were allowed in the south.

        transit and goos crossing to the west would be untaxed.

        would slavery have died out anyways?

        I think by the  1890's or the Great War,  Slavery would have died out.

        It's hard to get slaves to do anything more then simple tasks. The Nazi's found that out when they were running slaves in WW2.  Okay for digging roads, not much good for making munitions.

        But what would the confederacy been like?  A loose government like the Confederation.
        A whole slew of currencies.
        a third world hellhole much like africa.
        A real misery trying to get the states to cooperate.
        slaves escaping to northern territory.

        George Bush is Living proof of the axiom "Never send a boy to do a man's job" E -2.25 S -4.10

        by nathguy on Wed Apr 20, 2011 at 07:08:31 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  There's no evidence of this. The pathological (0+ / 0-)

          nature of Southern society, with its century long pretensions of being an aristocracy would have required slavery to keep the pretense going.

          Not to mention the evident pleasure the slave owners took in raping, killing and torturing their slaves.  It was a sadistic culture steeped in froideur and bloodshed.

          An imbalance between the rich and poor is the oldest and most fatal ailment of all republics - Plutarch

          by Leftwing Noise Machine on Wed Apr 20, 2011 at 11:41:23 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  would the Union have invaded in the 1890's (0+ / 0-)

            to end slavery, or enforced a embargo?

            salvery died out in europe and africa

            George Bush is Living proof of the axiom "Never send a boy to do a man's job" E -2.25 S -4.10

            by nathguy on Wed Apr 20, 2011 at 02:03:25 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Plantation slavery was a particular institution in (0+ / 0-)

              the South.  It didn't exist in Europe.  Where it existed elsewhere, like Central and South American it ended, but only after bloody slave rebellions.

              So the South was an unusual situation where slavery was culturally ingrained.  It's hard to believe anything but the use of armed force -- either by the North or by the slaves themselves -- would have ended that odious institution.

              An imbalance between the rich and poor is the oldest and most fatal ailment of all republics - Plutarch

              by Leftwing Noise Machine on Wed Apr 20, 2011 at 05:23:50 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

      •  And ... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        wmc418
        It really was about their obsessive desire to continue a culture based on slavery.

        a culture and an economic system ... you can make the argument that they were part and parcel of the same inclination and you'd be correct. But, both must be acknowledged. My only fine point ... yours is excellent.

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