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View Diary: The Tea Party's Neoconfederacy Fights the Civil War (Again) (81 comments)

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  •  I don't think you can separate those things. (2+ / 0-)
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    Sun dog, wmc418

    The 9/11 hijackers gave their lives for a cause they truly believed was just.  I don't and won't celebrate their courage.

    A lot of Germans joined up with the Nazis and gave their lives in a cause that they truly believed was just.  I don't and won't celebrate their courage.

    It matters, indelibly, why you do what you do.  All of our scholarship shows that the states of the Confederacy broke away to make slavery permanent, and that the men and women who enlisted in the cause by and large did so in order to help make slavery permanent.  They were fighting bravely, and laying down their lives, for a dark and evil cause.  I don't and won't celebrate their courage.

    "We reject as false the choice between our safety and our values." Barack Hussein Obama

    by jem6x on Wed Apr 20, 2011 at 06:30:32 AM PDT

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    •  I don't for a minute excuse or celebrate (1+ / 0-)
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      Sun dog

      the Nazi cause; but I'd offer as an illustration of my point the movie "Das Boot".  It was a gripping drama about how that band of men worked, struggled, and survived together.  Their nationality was immaterial to their courage as portrayed.  

      In the larger picture, of course, they were serving an inhuman regime that was murdering millions; but in the microcosm of their individual struggles, I can find courage to admire.

      You can't spell CRAZY without R-AZ.

      by rb608 on Wed Apr 20, 2011 at 06:52:34 AM PDT

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      •  Here's where you came off the rails a little bit (3+ / 0-)
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        rb608, jem6x, Leftwing Noise Machine
        men who dedicated their lives to a cause and who banded together to throw off the yoke of an oppressor.

        The evocation of Confederates "throwing off the yoke of an oppressor," is actually kind of offensive, if you think about it.  

        I get what you're saying here but you're navigating some pretty choppy water and that should be done with more care.  

        Das Boot did, indeed, manage to celebrate the humanity of those men without celebrating the cause of the government they served.  In that, it was a true work of art.  

        “There’s nothing serious about a plan that claims to reduce the deficit by spending a trillion dollars on tax cuts for millionaires and billionaires,” -Barack Obama

        by Sun dog on Wed Apr 20, 2011 at 07:17:09 AM PDT

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        •  Yoke of the oppressor... (1+ / 0-)
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          Sun dog

          Yeah, I don't agree with that either; I was trying to imagine the southern mindset.  And yes, I know I'm on pretty thin ice with the whole idea.   I think I'm a victim of the over-romaticization of the conflict through Hollywood's eyes from Shenandoah to GWTW, etc.

          You can't spell CRAZY without R-AZ.

          by rb608 on Wed Apr 20, 2011 at 07:49:53 AM PDT

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          •  The southern mindset (2+ / 0-)
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            jem6x, rb608

            I think is where much of the nation came off the rails too.  I've done the same thing you're talking about and so has just about every Civil War buff.  But mostly the white ones.  It's always important to remember that.  

            In truth white southerners should, by all rights, be the first to burn the Confederate flag or just leave it in the museum where it belongs.  It was the false and evil cause so many of their predecessors tragically rallied around, leading to the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people.  The prowess of leaders like Lee should be recognized as part of the tragedy that prolonged the war and the suffering.  They shouldn't be polishing statues of him.  Over the years, my feelings on this have become quite unambiguous.  I also recognize that if I wasn't white, it wouldn't have taken years.  

            “There’s nothing serious about a plan that claims to reduce the deficit by spending a trillion dollars on tax cuts for millionaires and billionaires,” -Barack Obama

            by Sun dog on Wed Apr 20, 2011 at 08:13:36 AM PDT

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