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View Diary: Library Employees Fired for Censorship in Kentucky (277 comments)

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  •  Homeschooling *does* prevent (6+ / 0-)

    community interaction.  That's part of its purpose.

    It's restrictive by its nature (you may choose to think of it as protective, but what are you protecting against when you make the choice to homeschool?).

    What it restricts depends on the homeschooler, but not on the act itself. It's a conscious deliberate withdrawal from "outside" (therefore "bad") influences.

    A subtle form of censorship, perhaps, but still a form of it.
    A subtle form of hermitage, maybe, or even one boasting of better access to other resources, but still hermitage.

    Also, in the case of the "liberal" homeschooler, it's a form of cop-out, IMO, because rather than fight for a good education for all the kids in the district, the parents decide the district's facilities or curricula or personnel are inadequate or inferior.

    Which is exactly the same prejudice the hard right wing has against all public schools.

    LBJ & Lady Bird, Sully Sullenberger, Molly Ivins, Barbara Jordan, Ann Richards, Drew Brees: Texas is No Bush League! -7.50,-5.59

    by BlackSheep1 on Wed Apr 20, 2011 at 10:30:38 AM PDT

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    •  No (10+ / 0-)
      Homeschooling does prevent
      community interaction.

           No it doesn't.  Home schooled children interact with the community outside of school, the real community.  My thought to home school my own children was to get them out of the false mini society of school.  I would have prefered they interact with the world they were entering and avoid the  silliness and pettiness of our local elementary school.   There is nothing valuable in following the rules of malicious, jealous kids who run a school.  I was unable to home school so mine attended  a local school.  I interact with many home schooled kids and they are not the mutants you imagine.

      And she's good at appearing sane, I just want you to know. Winwood/Capaldi

      by tobendaro on Wed Apr 20, 2011 at 10:38:20 AM PDT

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      •  They interact with the sub-communities their (5+ / 0-)

        parents choose for them. That's not the same thing as the real community.

        •  Define real community (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          zhimbo, Be Skeptical, mayim

          And who exactly are the arbiters of the real community. At some point someone(the government, parents, mentors etc) is deciding who and what the children are interacting with.

        •  When you are doing research (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          mayim

          and work at the local library, you are in the general community which is the word I should have used, not "real".   I teach gymnastics, we have homeschooled kids take class for physical education purposes.  They play on community soccer teams, basketball etc.  They attend classes at the YMCA and the moms using the babysitting services there are having their kids interact witt the community.  They are shopping, going into businesses and talking to managers for reports, visiting farms.  Every lesson is an opportunity to go out into the comunity and use the lesson to see how it works in real life.  That is the advantage of home schooling.   One can intertwine life into the lessons at every level.  It is an opportunity to actually live and not just listen and read about life.

          And she's good at appearing sane, I just want you to know. Winwood/Capaldi

          by tobendaro on Wed Apr 20, 2011 at 02:51:59 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  I think the difference here (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      zedaker, zhimbo, mayim

      Is that your under the assumption - and you are of course entitled to that view - that public schooling is somehow an integral part of community. I disagree. It may be in some areas but in my experience, across wide swathes of the nation - it simply isn't. It's a place that children are required by law to attend until a certain age and it may provide them with a good education or a bad education.

      The key word here is integral. Public schools, and attendance at them, are part of the overall society. Is it an integral part? Yes. No. Maybe.

      Are you really arguing that children should be exposed to all parts of society and community and not restricted from any of them?  I think that's my overall point here. I don't agree that public schooling is a necessary part of the community. I don't agree that Party Cove at Lake Havasu is a necessary part of community either. It's part of it. Just not necessary.

      You remain, as always, entitled to your opinion.

      •  Public schooling is the first exposure (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        brentut5, Catte Nappe, SadieB, greengemini

        outside their family / church / sports circle most youngsters have to people who don't live on their block. It's the first time kids from wealthy homes are exposed to kids from non-wealthy homes, and vice-versa. Privatization isn't just the descriptor for how the Right Wing wants to pay for schools (making them a for-profit enterprise monetarily rather than societally) -- it's what all homeschoolers do.

        They take away the element of being out in the public sphere.
        They also instil, intentionally or not, the idea that not being part of the public sphere is superior.

        LBJ & Lady Bird, Sully Sullenberger, Molly Ivins, Barbara Jordan, Ann Richards, Drew Brees: Texas is No Bush League! -7.50,-5.59

        by BlackSheep1 on Wed Apr 20, 2011 at 11:02:55 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Because (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          BlackSheep1, SadieB, zhimbo
          It's the first time kids from wealthy homes are exposed to kids from non-wealthy homes, and vice-versa.

          we know how the well to do are so looking forward to their children's becoming acquainted with the children of those in an economic strata ( or of an ethnic descent ) that they've elected to ignore, disdain and/or loathe.

          Tune in tomorrow when we discuss the myth of massive resistance.

          Fear doesn't just breed incomprehension. It also breeds a spiteful, resentful hate of anyone and everyone who is in any way different from you.

          by awesumtenor on Wed Apr 20, 2011 at 11:26:27 AM PDT

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          •  It's class panic is what it is -- (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            BlackSheep1

            the fear that your children might not be able to live at the same class level as yourself.

            But our problems are collective, not individual, and trying to save ourselves by avoiding "mixing" only weakens us. What we need to be doing is organizing and engaging in acts of solidarity to rebuild the middle class for ALL our children. Our own and other people's too.

            And yes, public schooling is an act of solidarity.

      •  Public school is the bedrock of democracy. (5+ / 0-)

        The fact that "wide swathes" have turned their back on it is a real problem, not something to shrug your shoulders at.

        •  Interesting. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Be Skeptical, mayim

          I think education and knowledge are the bedrock of democracy.

          Are public- especially American - schools the best and most expedient instrument of that? Good question.

          As I've noted in other threads, I firmly support good, well directed public schools. It's important to society that we have that options and I believe it is instrumental in maintaining a free society.

          That being said, I'm mainly reacting against the knee jerk reaction that not having a child in the system is somehow a censoring, non-integrating thing to do. I'm rejecting the notion that public schools are a major or integral part of societal and cultural integration.

          •  Education and knowledge available to ALL (4+ / 0-)

            is the bedrock of democracy, i.e.  "the rule of the people." If the people are the rulers, shouldn't we have the best education possible? It's only common sense.

            What's not common sense is how "Liberals" can abandon public schools without suffering cognitive dissonance.

            •  Cognitive disonance (0+ / 0-)

              I would suffer some serious cognitive disonance if I let my children suffer abuse in our local public school while learning next to nothing, yet blissfully believing that I was doing the best I could for them.  Sure, work to support the public schools.  But don't feel you need to sacrifice your children in some sort of political jesture if it's not helping them.  Remember, they will be the ones who will bear the consequences of your dogma.  You don't have to go to jr high again.

        •  Choice is important (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Be Skeptical, mayim

          Free public school as a CHOICE is a bedrock of democracy.  But parents MUST have the choice also to homeschool and/or choose a private school.

          FORCED public schooling would be the very antithesis of democracy, as parents would be forced to allow the state control over how their kids are educated.

    •  Govt. schooling is restrictive at well (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mayim

      Ultimately, others are determining for YOUR child what subjects get taught and what don't, and how it is taught.

      Homeschooling is a way for parents to take control of the education for their children.  There are plenty on the right AND left who take advantage of this.

      SOMEBODY has to control the agenda, and I see no reason to trust the state over parents.  For those who don't want to homeschool, the public schools are there, but choice is a good thing

      •  Tier Nostro, for you I have one word: (0+ / 0-)

        anti-vaccinationists.

        LBJ & Lady Bird, Sully Sullenberger, Molly Ivins, Barbara Jordan, Ann Richards, Drew Brees: Texas is No Bush League! -7.50,-5.59

        by BlackSheep1 on Wed Apr 20, 2011 at 10:25:51 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  i have one word: silly analogy (0+ / 0-)

          Or another word: Venerated.

          Neither word has anything to do with the issue at hand.

          Teaching is not medicine.  There is a reason why we require those who perform medical procedures to go to a special kind of school but we DON'T (in private and homeschools) require it of teachers.  Fwiw, I went to both public and private schools and some of the greatest teachers I learned from had no education degree and no teaching certificate.

          Otoh, I went to an MD with the proper specialty when I had a tendon reattached.

          •  No. Homeschoolers need not comply with laws (0+ / 0-)

            requiring immunizations, because their children need not prove having had the immunizations to attend school.

            LBJ & Lady Bird, Sully Sullenberger, Molly Ivins, Barbara Jordan, Ann Richards, Drew Brees: Texas is No Bush League! -7.50,-5.59

            by BlackSheep1 on Thu Apr 21, 2011 at 01:03:56 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

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