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View Diary: Witnessing Revolution #179 (184 comments)

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  •  Keep in mind the Gaddafi's loyalists are also (0+ / 0-)

    Libyan people. We don't know what their motives for fighting are but they must be very strong to withstand the massive NATO onslaught. How many thousand have now been killed by the NATO bombings? Nobody keeps a count of this.

    We also have no idea how many or in what proportion of the total population they comprise. If this is a large enough number, it will not bode well for the future of Libya.

    The formation of a democratic government is also going to be very problematic, especially if the western powers are involved.

    The changing of the economy from a socialistic to a capitalistic one is also going to cause considerable strife. I cannot see the US accepting another country like Venezuela or Cuba.

    How is this going to affect the Libyan people several years down the road? The nationalized oil companies will be the first to be privatized. Will NATO take money from Libya's Sovereign Fund to pay the cost of this intervention?

    •  Apparently a big reason many are 'loyal' (0+ / 0-)

      is they are being paid (or being promised payment) by the Qaddafi regime.

      If a 'large number' of Libyans truly supported Qaddafi - why is the regime been so threatened by a 'few' protesters that they could not have allowed them to protest in peace all along?

      •  Read the timeline of the Libyan uprising. (0+ / 0-)

        The protest in Libya turned violent from the very first day. There never were peaceful demonstrations in Libya. If you look to Tunisia and Egypt, the authorities used violence right from the start but the people stayed non-violent. They effectively policed themselves to keep their protest non-violent despite the brutality of the police.

        Also, if you look at Tunisia and Egypt, the turnout of demonstrators were in the hundreds of thousands. In Libya we find the demonstrations were in the hundreds and low thousands.

        I was expecting 100,000+ in Tripoli and 10,000+ in Benghazi. I never saw it. It pissed me off because a lot of people left the courageous ones out to dry. These revolutions need everyone out on the streets in mass.

        The fact that the turnout was so low made me wonder what was really going on. I'm not saying that most of the people like Gaddafi. Most probably hate him. But, there has to be a situation where life is so intolerable that people risk their lives to go on the streets and protest.

        The number of rebels on the front lines was remarkably low. We are looking at only hundreds. Also, it has become apparent that the rebels had access to a fantastic amount of armaments with the defection of Gaddafi's troops.

        But, where are the thousands of these troops from the 5 military bases in the east? They know how to use all those weapons. From reliable reports, there was some very advanced weaponry that could have taken out Gaddafi's few air strikes.

        BTW, I'm afraid that much of these arms have been spirited away and will come back to haunt them in the years to come.

        http://en.wikipedia.org/...
        15 February

            * In the evening approximately 200 people began demonstrating in front of the police headquarters in Benghazi following the arrest of human-rights activist Fathi Terbil.[6] They were joined by others later who totaled between 500 to 600 protesters. The protest was broken up violently by police,[7] causing as many as forty injuries among the protesters.[8]

            * In Al Bayda and Az Zintan, hundreds of protesters called for "the end of the regime" and set fire to police and security buildings.[7] In Az Zintan, the protesters set up tents in the town centre.[7]

        16 February

            * Protests continued in Benghazi, where hundreds of protesters gathered at Maydan al-Shajara before security services tried to disperse the crowd using water cannons.[9] After clashes between the two groups, the police left.[10] Al-Yawm estimated a crowd of more than 1,500 people attempting to storm the internal security building in Al Bayda.[citation needed] The protesters set fire to two cars and burnt down the headquarters of the traffic police.[11] In the ensuing clashes with police six people died[10] and three were injured.[12] In Al-Quba, more than 400 protesters over a wide range of ages set fire to the police station.[10] Protests were also reported in Darnah and Az Zintan, though there were no injuries.[12]

            * Pro-government rallies of many dozens of Gaddafi supporters and Tripolitanian people also took place.[11]

            * Reportedly as a response to the demonstrations, Libya released 110 members of the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group from prison on 16 February.[13][14]

        •  The "loyal" people are not only being paid (0+ / 0-)

          in some cases but also lied to by state TV and living in terror, if they are in Tripoli or other state-controlled areas.

          Of course the protests turned violent.  In the first incident you cite,

          The protest was broken up violently by police,[7] causing as many as forty injuries among the protesters.[8]

          As to your broader point, perhaps Libyans knew their dictator well enough to understand that Gandhian tactics would be crushed, which can also explain the low turnout for the initial protests.  For one not having lived under that reign of terror to moralize about the Libyan response . . . words fail me.  

          •  If Gaddafi was so bad why the following: (0+ / 0-)
            http://www.globalresearch.ca/...

            McCain-Hillary in 2009: Libya is "An Important Ally in the War on Terrorism", Gaddafi is "a Peacemaker in Africa"

            The U.S. side called Libya "an important ally in the war on terrorism", stressing that "common enemies make better friends".

            McCain described the "bilateral military relationship as strong" and pointed to "Libyan officer training at U.S. Command, Staff, and War colleges as some of the best programs for Libyan military participation".

            Just twenty months later, in Benghazi, Senator McCain met with  Mustafa Abdul Jalil and other former chiefs of the Libyan government, who now seek to overthrow Qadhafi. But something has not changed: the real purpose of McCain.

            The Senator is supporter of big U.S. oil companies: ExxonMobil, Chevron, ConocoPhillips, and others.

            Now, all of a sudden Gaddafi has been running a reign of terror for decades.

            http://tv.globalresearch.ca/...
            Pentagon Propaganda Sways US Opinion of Libya
            by grtv

            The United States media has been portraying the conflict in Libya in different ways that has confused many and left people wondering what is really going on there.

            War Correspondent Keith Harmon Snow says there is a psychological operation performed by the Pentagon to persuade the American people through propaganda one way or the other.

            ...
            In contrast with what is happening in Egypt and Tunisia, Libya occupies the first spot on the Human Development Index for Africa and it has the highest life expectancy on the continent. Education and health receive special attention from the State. The cultural level of its population is without a doubt the highest. Its problems are of a different sort. The population wasn’t lacking food and essential social services. The country needed an abundant foreign labour force to carry out ambitious plans for production and social development.

            For that reason, it provided jobs for hundreds of thousands of workers from Egypt, Tunisia, China and other countries. It had enormous incomes and reserves in convertible currencies deposited in the banks of the wealthy countries from which they acquired consumer goods and even sophisticated weapons that were supplied exactly by the same countries that today want to invade it in the name of human rights.

            The colossal campaign of lies, unleashed by the mass media, resulted in great confusion in world public opinion. Some time will go by before we can reconstruct what has really happened in Libya, and we can separate the true facts from the false ones that have been spread.
            ...

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