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View Diary: Recent DOE Break-Through with Hydrogen Fuel Cells, should make them Affordable (275 comments)

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  •  No, it is not less loss of energy. (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    OtherDoug, Recall, Odysseus, JohnnySacks

    But even PEMFCs are much more inefficient than EVs.  Here's a nice chart:

    Link.  That's from this research paper.  Acronyms: ICE = Internal Combustion Engine, PEMFC = Proton-Exchange Membrane Fuel Cell, NG = Natural Gas, CNG = Compressed Natural Gas.

    I'm really frustrated by how many people here read some hype piece and just buy into whatever it says without knowing anything about the topic.  This isn't so much a commentary on your post as on all of the "hooray!  the future is here!" posts scattered throughout this thread.

    •  the people (0+ / 0-)

      need hope in the future.

      Peak Oil is coming.

      We HAVE to do Something.

      Want would you have us do Rei?

      Maybe invest in Clean Coal,
      or Safe Nuclear?

      Maybe wait for the Perfect Tech, and the Perfect Implementation.

      the people need hope in the future,
      that it will be better,

      that it can work out.

      Got Time?
      Take ten, to find something else informative and fun to read. Thx.

      by jamess on Sun Apr 24, 2011 at 11:42:29 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Electric. (0+ / 0-)

        It's a much more near-term approach than hydrogen, and far more efficient (read: scalable).  Beyond that, for any vehicle (gasoline included):

         * Vehicle mass reduction, esp. a switch to composites (which will also increase vehicle lifespans and safety)
         * Vehicle streamlining (we need to stop letting unaerodynamic style trends dominate vehicle design)
         * Increasing use of hybrid technology
         * More widespread adoption of LRR tires
         * The continued incremental progress in ICE efficiency

        There's no reason why two-seater hybrids shouldn't get 100+ MPG, and four-seaters 70+.  If you let streamlining and composites/weight reduction dominate your design process, you absolutely can make cars with those numbers that are still as safe or safer than ever, and plenty good performing to boot (electric motors have tons of power).

    •  I'm Confused (0+ / 0-)

      I just realized I may be one of the 'hooray' people without knowing one of the details.

      Let's face it, if the best we can do is produce hydrogen from hydrocarbon sources, then this diary's entire premise is 100% bullshit.  I'm making a blanket assumption that the hydrogen is produced from solar.  

      If we ignore the cost to produce the hydrogen and focus on fuel cell vs. internal combustion...  

      Is more or less useable horsepower produced from the same amount of hydrogen from a fuel cell or from internal combustion?  

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