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View Diary: 255 Were Held at Gitmo Based on Dubious Coerced "Confessions" of 8 (55 comments)

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  •  Gitmo has soured the world's view of US (12+ / 0-)

    this sad episode in American arrogance needs to end now. There needs to be an honest examination and we must be willing to indict the process that started this sort of detention and we need to apply penalties on the parties and policies that allowed this to ever happen.

    •  What we need, apparently, is for the Europeans to (6+ / 0-)

      grow a pair and force through international investigations and indictments, over the obvious diplomatic sabotage of such measures by the Obama Administration (thanks for that info, too, Wikileaks).

      Particularly galling -- once and yet again -- that Bradley Manning and Wikileaks are behind this airing of U.S. torture, while Manning is being tortured by the U.S.  

      Conservatives are] engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; ...the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. JK Galbraith

      by Vtdblue on Mon Apr 25, 2011 at 09:20:00 PM PDT

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      •  Trading Places (14+ / 0-)

        Gitmo is a terrible stain on the nation's legacy and contradicts its self-proclaimed belief in being a "nation of laws."

        Prison Signs by Adam Zyglis, Buffalo News, Buy this cartoon

      •  Oh not with the Manning "torture" BS again (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        johnny wurster

        There are over 10,000 civilians still in solitary confinement in the United states prison system.

        I swear, people watched The Last Detail growing up, and think poor Bradley Manning is Larry Meadows.

        •  you keep repeating this (9+ / 0-)

          as though the horrors that befall other civilians in prison somehow excuses or legitimates the treatment that has befallen Manning.

          When George Bush was President, were you telling others to stop complaining about his administration's treatment of Guantanamo prisoners for the same reason?  Were you telling progressives to stop calling it torture, even though many of them faced the same exact conditions that Manning has?

          One of the 300 detainees presently held in these conditions is UK resident Shaker Aamer, who has been kept in solitary confinement in Camp Echo for more than a year and a half. He is reportedly confined to a small (six-feet by eight-feet), windowless cell with no natural light or fresh air. He is allowed only minimal opportunity for exercise and - apart from a Qu'ran - has no possessions.

          Mr Aamer, who has formerly acted as a camp negotiator and may be suffering harsh treatment as a consequence, was at one time denied any exercise outside of his cell for at least 64 consecutive days. He has also reportedly suffered beatings and harassment by camp guards, including having his clothes and mattress removed.

          The Red Cross, the only independent monitoring organisation allowed to inspect the detention facilities at Guantánamo, has described conditions at Camp Echo as 'extremely harsh'. Prisoners are kept in their windowless cells for 23 or 24 hours a day, and - in the absence of any natural light whatsoever - fluorescent lighting is kept on 24 hours a day. Meanwhile, Camp 6 has been described by one detainee as a 'dungeon above the ground'.

          Ask yourself this: If you were to complain about the treatment of a poor civilian prisoner in Texas, and then someone said that your concern wasn't valid because you didn't then use the opportunity to complain about Manning's detention, would you think that was okay?  I wouldn't.  I assume any person who cared about human rights and who was intellectually consistent would feel the same.

          •  Um, here's the problem (0+ / 0-)

            I was opposed the torture in overseas prisons.

            The torture stopped with Obama's EO.

            Now what do you do with all the people you collected during the Bush Administration.

            •  You're dreaming if you think the overseas torture (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:

              has stopped. It's been driven underground, but still exists in Afghanistan (Bagram) and other locations farmed out to dictatorial regimes.  

              Perhaps the most egregious examples and methods have been reduced, but if the Obama admin. doesn't hesitate to torture an American citizen, why on earth would you think they wouldn't do a "wink-wink, nudge-nudge" overseas -- as the military did with the now-infamous killer squads.

              Conservatives are] engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; ...the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. JK Galbraith

              by Vtdblue on Tue Apr 26, 2011 at 12:14:04 PM PDT

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        •  So the problem is 10,000 times greater (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Ignacio Magaloni, Vtdblue

          than the other poster suggested, and you suggest sweeping it all under the rug (aka "Oh not with the . .. ")?

          That's bizarre.

      •  Not Europe: us. (3+ / 0-)

        Europe has neither the ability nor the desire to back that kind of thing up; you'd sooner see Bush turn himself in willingly.  The best you can hope for is that the public of various European countries ditch their own elected leaders in protest - but none will take any kind of action against American leaders.

        If there's going to be any kind of movement on Guantanamo it has to come from here, and frankly we can't seem to get nearly the amount of noise that the terror-terrified gin up for (what should be) non-issues like trying alleged 9/11 co-conspirators on U.S. soil.  The courts haven't been helpful either.  About the only thing we can hope for is that enough sunlight gets shined on this kind of thing that whatever pols still have some sense of shame will act on it.  

        Very few issues on which I'm as sadly cynical as this one.

        Saint, n. A dead sinner revised and edited. - Ambrose Bierce

        by pico on Mon Apr 25, 2011 at 11:44:44 PM PDT

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        •  Disappointing. (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Floande, truong son traveler, Vtdblue

          Some Europeans would love to try. At least the Guardian has been all over the story like a coat of paint for the last two days, including all the tacky letters the administration has written about the subject (see 3:47 PM), but until Americans rise up and demand an end to Guantanamo, it will fester along.
          MrSylvania said it was as if they decided not to liberate Bergen-Belsen because letting the prisoners out would embarrass the politicians.....and what could be done with all the people who had places to stay there?

        •  Spanish tried, but as Wikileaks discovered, they (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          were stymied by the Obama administration in trying to investigate and charge Cheney and Bush and Co.  So they, many of them, DO have the "desire" to go after it.

          Conservatives are] engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; ...the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. JK Galbraith

          by Vtdblue on Tue Apr 26, 2011 at 12:22:58 PM PDT

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      •  heh. (0+ / 0-)

        That was a joke, right?

    •  Or simply confirmed the fears and suspicions (7+ / 0-)

      Of many millions around the world, including people in the United States.  Even the pretense of US moral leadership has become impossible.  

      Of course, any path to restoring the possibility of moral leadership begins with the law, which means it begins with the administration holding accountable the criminals who created the US system of gulags around the world, and the criminals who continue to sustain it.  Since that group of criminals now includes the administration, any restoration of moral credibility is a long, long way off for this country.

      If your issue is still Democrat vs. Republican, you've been punked by the Oligarchy.

      by MrJayTee on Mon Apr 25, 2011 at 09:24:49 PM PDT

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