Skip to main content

View Diary: 'The bipartisan normalization and legitimation of the National Surveillance State' (166 comments)

Comment Preferences

  •  9/11 wasn't convenient for anyone (0+ / 0-)

    The CIA and military are not out to get us.  Sometimes they do things that seem to us as undermining out integrity and Constitution, but if you think that 9/11 was just an excuse for the intelligence community to get new toys (not that they didn't get new toys) then I think you're being naive.  

    •  It wasn't JUST an excuse... (8+ / 0-)

      ...But it did get used as a justification for the unjustifiable. It's not about "toys," it's about actions.

      As for "sometimes they do things that seem to us as undermining ou[r] integrity and Constitution," if you believe that it only seems that way, then I think you're being naive.

      That doesn't mean I think everything the CIA and military do is bad.  

      Don't tell me what you believe. Tell me what you do and I'll tell you what you believe.

      by Meteor Blades on Sun May 01, 2011 at 06:16:45 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  What is 'unjustifiable'? (0+ / 0-)

        Your interpretation of what is or isn't justifiable is just that: your interpretation.  There can be a principled case made for the use of anything in the name of national security, and who are we to say that the principal is wrong? We can voice our displeasure, and work to curtail it as you have.  I think that's good, and I think it's productive.  

        You're absolutely right that there have been abuses, but I think it's a stretch to call it unjustifiable.  Gonzalez and Yoo were taken seriously, no matter how much we disagree with their methods and findings.  The fact is, they justified it, and now we have to live with that.

        •  Wrong: we don't have to live with it, we have to (4+ / 0-)

          fix it.  The failure to do that by this "change" administration is the crux of this diary.  Your willingness to live with outrageous contraventions of our Constitution and laws by the government itself is exactly what opponents of a free society count on to advance their agenda.  Congratulations.

          "Faced with what is right, to leave it undone shows a lack of courage." - Confucius -/- "Yeah, well, the Constitution is worth it if you succeed." - Nancy Pelosi

          by nailbender on Sun May 01, 2011 at 07:03:51 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  If I'm not with you, I'm against you? (0+ / 0-)

            My point is that it isn't right, and we should work to change it.  But my point is also that we shouldn't demagogue the issue and recognize that there is absolutely a compelling State interest in protecting citizens from terrorist threats.  It doesn't have to be a choice between what you think is the appropriate role of the State in this aspect of security - what you call "willingness to live with outrageous contraventions of our Constitution" - and "opponents of a free society."

        •  Fuck the Constitution, right? (0+ / 0-)

          Just scrap the goddamned thing. People might die if we fall for this "nation of laws, not men" bullshit. It's time to trust in our leaders, to hell with the law.

          In fact, I propose abolishing the law. All of it. People might really get hurt if we all aren't allowed to murder random people.

          And that's the power we all should have in this modern, dangerous world, yes? Unless you're saying the President is allowed to break the law, and the people the President tells to break the law are allowed to break the law, but ordinary people aren't. But you definitely can't be saying that, because that's what we fought a fucking revolution to get rid of. We have laws here that apply to everyone because that's the only way you get justice. Remember justice?

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

  • Recommended (132)
  • Community (62)
  • Elections (39)
  • 2016 (37)
  • Environment (36)
  • Bernie Sanders (35)
  • Hillary Clinton (30)
  • Culture (30)
  • Republicans (29)
  • Media (29)
  • Climate Change (27)
  • Spam (24)
  • Congress (23)
  • Education (23)
  • Civil Rights (22)
  • Barack Obama (21)
  • Labor (21)
  • Trans-Pacific Partnership (21)
  • Texas (20)
  • Law (20)
  • Click here for the mobile view of the site