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  •  This is a very intersting idea, (0+ / 0-)

    I have not heard about.  In fact, I find it very interesting that I have not heard this before (not that I am an expert on all things .. far from it).

    Do you have any evidence of this, beyond anecdotal?  I would have (from 1,000 miles away) have agreed that home schooling and church-based education has been extremely conservative, but for this long?  And, to this extent?  And, as a result of "school integration"?

    The only force that can overcome an idea and a faith is another and better idea and faith, positively and fearlessly upheld. Dorothy Thompson.

    by Intellectually Curious on Thu Apr 28, 2011 at 05:07:03 PM PDT

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    •  Church based schools are definitely the result of (15+ / 0-)

      school integration in the south. Believe it. Sad, but true.

      You can't scare me, I'm sticking to the Union - Woody Guthrie

      by sewaneepat on Thu Apr 28, 2011 at 05:49:31 PM PDT

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      •  not so much in the north (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        jts327

        where they were established at the end of the 19th or beginning of the 20th century.

        If you think you're too small to be effective, you've never been in the dark with a mosquito.

        by marykk on Fri Apr 29, 2011 at 04:10:13 AM PDT

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        •  Interesting. (6+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          jts327, pelagicray, MooseHB, JVolvo, tikkun, marykk

          As pelagicray has mentioned, there were Catholic and Episcopal churches here before integration, but in the 60's and 70's, Baptist, Church of Christ, Evangelical, and other fundamentalist churches began setting up schools - "Academies" as they were often called. And the only reason was to keep their children from being contaminated by "the blacks." Since I neither went to one or sent my children to one, I don't know what they taught, but I imagine it was a different science and history than regular schools (public or already established private) taught.

          You can't scare me, I'm sticking to the Union - Woody Guthrie

          by sewaneepat on Fri Apr 29, 2011 at 05:56:37 AM PDT

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          •  Back in the late 1970s, when I lived down South, (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            sewaneepat, JVolvo, tikkun

            one of the pastors of such a flock appeared before the school board and demanded equal time for Creation Science and the elimination of "social" and "critical thinking" subject matter in the public schools. He had a conflict of interest as his church ran an "academy." Never mind, he had some of his flock with him and many board members were sympathetic.

            There was considerable support and sympathy when he related how "sick and tired" he and his flock were to have their children come home and "challenge" their teachings after some "Communist" social teaching or anti-Bible teaching had been done in school. Last I heard the public schools there were under a lot of mandates to not cause such questioning among the children.

            I mentioned that trend in a comment days ago and in much of the nation those termites have eaten the floor joists of a reasonable and advanced nation.

            The only foes that threaten America are the enemies at home, and those are ignorance, superstition, and incompetence. [Elbert Hubbard]

            by pelagicray on Fri Apr 29, 2011 at 08:49:33 AM PDT

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            •  Our new Republican legislature in TN (6+ / 0-)

              is trying to pass a law saying that science classes must "teach the controversy" regarding evolution and climate change. I don't remember if it has passed yet or not; it's something new to fight every damned day with them. The latest is that counties and cities cannot have a more progressive anti-discrimination policy than that of the state. This is a result of Nashville passing an ordinance including sexual orientation in the list of anti-discrimination criteria for businesses with city contracts. It makes you want to pull your hair out.

              And I am old enough that I graduated from HS before the legislature repealed the previous anti-evolution law. We had pages of our biology textbook stapled together lest we might read the pages on evolution and go to hell.

              You can't scare me, I'm sticking to the Union - Woody Guthrie

              by sewaneepat on Fri Apr 29, 2011 at 09:08:25 AM PDT

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          •  Ironic (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            sewaneepat, pelagicray, JVolvo

            That Christianity, which holds as a primary teaching: "Love Thy Neighbor As Thyself," has such a difficult time following the teaching.

            "Without LOVE in the dream it will never come true..." -Hunter/Garcia

            by US Blues on Fri Apr 29, 2011 at 08:57:20 AM PDT

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            •  What is taught in many a "Christian" church (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              JVolvo

              completely ignores the "red letter" text of their New Testaments that indicates words of the one they name themselves after.

              In fact, a number of ministers got into serious trouble in some churches when they took those red letter passages as the basis for teaching sermons. In less hierarchical churches they got run out. In the hierarchical ones there were splinter denominations. Look at the issues in the Episcopal churches over homosexuality.

              The only foes that threaten America are the enemies at home, and those are ignorance, superstition, and incompetence. [Elbert Hubbard]

              by pelagicray on Fri Apr 29, 2011 at 09:05:37 AM PDT

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        •  Entirely different flavor in those old schools, (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          tikkun

          much more similar to the existing Catholic and mainline Protestant (often Episcopal "prep" schools) that were in the South long before integration was even seriously considered. Down below I quote mention of how in Natchez the church schools doubled with forced integration. The two old ones were absolutely classic and found in many a small city and town in the South. The new ones, fundamentalist based and teaching anti-science and radical right ideology, are now classics as well.

          By the way, those last have spread out of the deep South even into other regions. We have some monsters here in Northern Virginia with megachurches and huge schools absolutely linked.

          The nature of the Catholic schools also seems to have changed. There seem to be entire Catholic congregations much more focused on the school and virulent anti-abortion teaching than old line Catholic churches and schools. Both in my past life in a small Southern town and here the closest Catholic church came after the school building. Services moved from cafeterias to a sanctuary when fund raising allowed. Both were staffed by virulently anti-abortion Irish priests. It was interesting to see the difference in services between those new Catholic congregations and older ones, usually with priests not from Ireland. One stood a chance of hearing a peaceful Mass without strident calls to fight the "baby murder" and there were far fewer cars plastered with "pro life" stickers.

          The only foes that threaten America are the enemies at home, and those are ignorance, superstition, and incompetence. [Elbert Hubbard]

          by pelagicray on Fri Apr 29, 2011 at 09:01:32 AM PDT

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          •  Look To The History of John Neuhous (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            pelagicray

            and check out the relationship between the IRD and the rise of the Roman Catholic radical right.  The history of this well organized drive to the right in both Roman Catholicism and evangelical protestent is well documented at talk2action.org.

            Newt 2012. Sociopath, adulterer, hypocrite, Republican.

            by tikkun on Fri Apr 29, 2011 at 04:49:28 PM PDT

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            •  Yes, and the school then sanctuary, hard line (0+ / 0-)

              anti-abortion all the time congregations seem in my experience to be highly correlated to white, upper middle class suburban areas. They are, is suspect something parallel to the Protestant Christian academy thing with a somewhat less racist (at least overtly) origin.

              The only foes that threaten America are the enemies at home, and those are ignorance, superstition, and incompetence. [Elbert Hubbard]

              by pelagicray on Sat Apr 30, 2011 at 09:54:41 AM PDT

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    •  I will suggest some homework--not do it all. (15+ / 0-)

      Sorry, but twice in rapid fire you've come back pleading ignorance and "show me more" rather than do your own  fact checking.

      There is plenty of documentation, including formal post Andrew reports, on the traditional hostility to building codes and zoning in much of the region being devastated and the relation of lack of such in compounding damage. I just gave you some samples above.

      There is plenty of documentation on the white flight from public schools in the South and Midwest with integration. There is data available on the percentages in public schools and in private "academies" and you can find plenty on the "Christian academies" that sprung up like mushrooms after a wet period when desegregation hit the counties and towns. That is how they got the initial boost into what is now "customary" in many areas and losing some of the flavor of "segregation by Christian means" that was very clear in the late 1960s and 1970s.

      Clues from a fes minutes searching:

      The search for American political development By Karen Orren, Stephen Skowronek

      Blood Done Sign My Name: A True Story By Timothy B. Tyson

      The devil's punchbowl By Greg Iles

      And this little gem with a familiar name from Women’s Health Is A Family Value with my empahsis:

      Paul Weyrich, who was one of the early activists in the Conservative Christian movement, declared in 1978 that “what galvanized the Christian community was not abortion, school prayer, or the ERA [Equal Rights Amendment].  I am living witness to that because I was trying to get those people interested in those issues and I utterly failed.  What changed their mind was Jimmy Carter’s intervention against the Christian schools, trying to deny them tax-exempt status on the basis of so-called de facto segregation.”*   Specifically, the contentious issue was the decision by the IRS in the mid-1970s to revoke the tax-exempt status of schools that did not meet new national standards of racial integration.  This decision was aimed largely at private, all-white, Christian academies in the South.

      Just follow the Google!

      The only foes that threaten America are the enemies at home, and those are ignorance, superstition, and incompetence. [Elbert Hubbard]

      by pelagicray on Thu Apr 28, 2011 at 05:56:04 PM PDT

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      •  Thank you, will read up! n/t (2+ / 0-)

        The only force that can overcome an idea and a faith is another and better idea and faith, positively and fearlessly upheld. Dorothy Thompson.

        by Intellectually Curious on Thu Apr 28, 2011 at 07:47:05 PM PDT

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        •  Sorry for getting a bit short there. (9+ / 0-)

          Maybe it was because I'd stumbled into one of the blizzard of "Birther" stuff and get snarly and fangy at the slightest whiff of "but, but, I'm not sure . . . Can you prove it?" for a bit afterward. They are so fortunate I am not a werewolf! Full moons would be downright fangy delights.

          People that didn't live the time in the place probably have real difficulty following the dots. Those of us that did know it in the bones. My memory of the clouds of gas rising across campus and finally filling my room as, for a change, state police were protecting one of the Negro students from outside rioters--and that was in a state with a "progressive" governor by the standards of the time. Pretty much fifty years away from the time and the place and it is all there.

          I didn't notice until after collecting those quick references, it had not "clicked" that my top of the head:

          These "academies" were not set up for the most part by the wealthier "mainline" churches (usually somewhat more "liberal" and "educated") where the town rich worshiped. Some of those already had church schools more on the line of top prep schools.

          Was so mirrored in a reference with:

          After forced integration in 1968, the number of private schools doubled from two to four. . . the two original ones: Immaculate Heart and St. Stephen's. The new schools were "Christian academies" that stressed conservative ideology . . .

          Almost stereotypical though. The Country Club set, the "English architecture" Episcopal church and the Episcopal prep school where one found textile mill executives or other major local money and the Catholic school, something of a refuge for another Southern minority not always comfortably residing.

          Not knowing our history comes back to bite. To understand the origins of the intense anti-science and I think increased fundamentalist influence, particularly in the South and Midwest, we need to understand why and how a goodly part of several generations of whites were removed from good public education into madrassas with indoctrination instead of education.

          The only foes that threaten America are the enemies at home, and those are ignorance, superstition, and incompetence. [Elbert Hubbard]

          by pelagicray on Thu Apr 28, 2011 at 08:17:03 PM PDT

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        •  seriously (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Intellectually Curious

          you need to change your name

          ...sin that pays its way can travel freely, and without a passport,whereas Virtue, if a pauper is stopped at all frontiers. from The Sermon, Moby Dick

          by jts327 on Fri Apr 29, 2011 at 08:40:56 AM PDT

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    •  Note in one of the references a very typical (6+ / 0-)

      pattern, particularly in the Gulf South where there were more Catholics than the rest of the South (In my town they were rare "iffy" as associates with the one or two Jews even rarer. Much of the South was strongly anti-Catholic).

      In The devil's punchbowl paragraph there is mention of two schools before integration:

      After forced integration in 1968, the number of private schools doubled from two to four. . . the two original ones: Immaculate Heart and St. Stephen's. The new schools were "Christian academies" that stressed conservative ideology . . .

      Classic! Elite St. Stephens Episcopal school, veddy "English" and upper crust (downright Country Club!) in its usual form and good old more "working or business class, Irish/Italian/French Catholic Immaculate Heart! I can almost picture the town, the uniforms, the "patina" as this was very common even to the names.

      The only foes that threaten America are the enemies at home, and those are ignorance, superstition, and incompetence. [Elbert Hubbard]

      by pelagicray on Thu Apr 28, 2011 at 06:10:17 PM PDT

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