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View Diary: This is what political courage looks like (190 comments)

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  •  That's it. I give up. (1+ / 0-)
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    It's as if the whole country has gone insane this week.  I understand that there can be differences of opinion on hard cases -- and this is legitimately a hard case.  But as far as I can tell, there are few people on this site capable of reasoned dialogue this week on this issue.  

    This kill operation has been deeply disappointing to me as an American.  To me it makes us look like the people we are fighting.  I don't find valor in this operation; I find sadness.  I don't weep that OBL is gone, but I will not call the operation courageous or a success.  

    However, I am done arguing and will not respond to any more comments.  There is a collective howl coming against me for questioning the ethics of this operation.  I will be quiet and go.  Carry on with your back slaps and shiny lapel pins and have fun with the partisan partying.

    •  While you are convalescing, read this collection (5+ / 0-)

      of pieces from Foreign Affairs.  It mentions Al Qaeda declaring w_r on us.

      Unplug the Koch machine! It's swallowing people's money!

      by Seneca Doane on Wed May 04, 2011 at 08:56:20 AM PDT

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    •  Try (3+ / 0-)

      not to let it get to you, I for one value your opinion even if I may not fully agree with all of it. Offering critique and holding open some healthy skepticism is not a bad thing.

    •  I agree that this is concerning... (0+ / 0-)

      I don't like the idea of the POTUS ordering our forces to violate another nation's sovereignty in order to kill someone.  But in this case, I don't like our options.  We don't even now what to to with the people in Gitmo, a bin Laden trial would have been horrendous for this country.  You can certainly argue that Obama took the easy way out and started down a slippery slope, but I'm not sure the alternatives weren't worse.

    •  Don't respond to this comment. (1+ / 0-)
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      Real Bum Steer
      It seems like the whole country has thrown principle and reason out the window in favor of emotion.

      Of course there is emotion.  Can you step back now a bit and see that nearly everything you're written in this thread is based on your emotion?  It's an emotional issue.  Thousands of people were murdered by bin Laden.  And the most vocal celebrators were in the two targeted cities.  Yet it is hard to justify the killing of any human being.  Even bin Laden.

      Where is your principle and reason backed up by anything other than your own assertion?  Where is your discussion based on the study of ethics?  Or are you also being led by your emotions based on your shock and repulsion of seeing the boisterous celebrations in New York and DC?

      For the record, I wasn't in the streets celebrating and the first emotion I felt was sadness - but I haven't been able to place it other than an unfocused sorrow at the dangerous, destructive world we live in.  But I have a deep joy that ObL is dead.  I highly respect all the people that put this operation together and given all the potential negative reactions to how things could have played out, I highly respect them for the tough decisions they made.

      And let's all have a little humility about that please.  Everyone involved in this operation had some tough decisions to make and some of them we will never know about.

      We are a nation of laws, but the law is always incomplete.  Some acts are able to find loopholes (tax law anyone?) and violate the spirit of the law.  Sometimes laws need to be revised.  Sometimes laws are wrong and need to be disobeyed.  And sometimes whole societies and the relationships between nations need significant overhaul of laws.

      The infinite variations of human behavior is far greater than the law can anticipate.


      Arthur Caplan, Ph.D., is director of the Center for Bioethics at the University of Pennsylvania and this is what he had to say:

      What is interesting about the prohibition of assassination in international law is that when it was enacted, long, long ago, it was intended to protect heads of state — not leaders of terrorist movements. Strange as it may seem, it is harder to justify blowing up Moammar Gadhafi in a tent in Libya using a predator drone than it is shooting bin Laden in the head.
      One way to see that justice is served by killing bin Laden is to see that he was playing essentially a military role in waging war against America. According to fatwa he issued in 1998, it is the duty of Muslims around the world to wage holy war on the United States, American civilians, and Jews. Muslims who do not heed this call are apostates, people who have forsaken their faith, and thus legitimate targets for death as well. Bin Laden was neither a diplomat nor a politician. Nor was he a civilian. He was essentially a military figure leading a band of combatants in a self-styled religious war. Military leaders are fair game.

      "O, yes, I say it plain, America never was America to me, And yet I swear this oath-- America will be!"

      by Satya1 on Wed May 04, 2011 at 09:54:28 AM PDT

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